McLaren F1 successor

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the EDGE
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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AngusF1 wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:38 pm
Let's discuss the tyres.
  • McLaren F1: 235/45/17 fronts, 315/45/17 rears.
  • GMA T50: 235/35/19 fronts, 295/30/20 rears.
Why such smaller aspect ratios ? Possibilities I can think of include:
  1. Fashion.
  2. The brief has changed from sports-touring more towards sports. The car will be less comfortable with more NVH in return for (perceived?) better handling response and/or steering feel.
  3. Modern tyres can provide similar comfort with lower profiles.
  4. Modern dampers can provide similar comfort with lower profile tyres.
  5. Larger wheels were needed for mechanical and brake packaging.
  6. The original 45-section tyres were an eccentric choice by Murray which suited his personal tastes but almost nobody else's.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?


Angus
They’re not actually that dissimilar

Larger rims with lower profile tyres to give less role, but over-all, the external diameters remain about the same

No change to the width of the front tyres, but slightly narrower rear tyre.
This would reduce drag, but also grip which I assume the ridiculous amounts of DF more than makes up for

e36jon
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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Regarding tire sizes, the actual tread width gets wider with the lower profile tires. From the Tire Rack website, for the same make of tire (Michelin max performance something or other. Sorry, didn't write it down.):
  • 235/45/17 tread width = 7.8"
  • 235/35/19 tread width = 8.4"
I was unable to compare rears since they don't carry any 315/45/17's!

I may have missed rim widths earlier but wider rims also increase tread width up to a point.

All of the above also doesn't discuss drive-ability. The lower sidewall tires have a much more abrupt transition from grip to slide. Couple that with less ability to deal with road imperfections and it's no wonder so many hyper/super cars end up in guardrails, swimming pools, etc...

Cheers,

Jon

Just_a_fan
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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I think a lot of move to big wheels, low sidewalls on road cars is fashion. The German manufacturers, for example, went down this route some time ago. Great if you have nice smooth roads. Rubbish if the surface is broken / rutted etc.

There seems to be an idea that rubber bands on big diameter rims "fills the arches" more, but it must be a personal thing as I think the same overall size but with more sidewall fills the arches better.

Too many of the people designing cars these days do sketches of missiles with huge wheels - and that's what gets built.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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Morteza
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

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Morteza
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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It's alive :)
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

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Holm86
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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Morteza wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:31 pm
It's alive :)
https://youtu.be/P3DVUYTeOyQ
Sounds so freaking good, it's weird we now live in times where road cars sounds better, and are more interesting than race cars

Just_a_fan
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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Morteza wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:31 pm
It's alive :)
https://youtu.be/P3DVUYTeOyQ
That's 1990's F1 noise come back to life. I was expecting to see Alesi blast by in the 412 T2. :o 8) :lol:

For any of the youngsters who joined F1 since the millennium, this is what I mean:
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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djos
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:13 pm
Morteza wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:31 pm
It's alive :)
https://youtu.be/P3DVUYTeOyQ
That's 1990's F1 noise come back to life. I was expecting to see Alesi blast by in the 412 T2. :o 8) :lol:

For any of the youngsters who joined F1 since the millennium, this is what I mean:
My thoughts exactly! Sounds incredible!! =D> =D> =D>
"In downforce we trust"

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Morteza
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

Jolle
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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Looking at the video and the car, it feels more and more like a re-imagined F1 and that is basically almost a 30 year old car with new bits (although, the original F1 was years ahead of its time)

Feels like the new album of an old band. Good, but still an old band with new toys.

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Zynerji
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:30 pm
I think a lot of move to big wheels, low sidewalls on road cars is fashion. The German manufacturers, for example, went down this route some time ago. Great if you have nice smooth roads. Rubbish if the surface is broken / rutted etc.

There seems to be an idea that rubber bands on big diameter rims "fills the arches" more, but it must be a personal thing as I think the same overall size but with more sidewall fills the arches better.

Too many of the people designing cars these days do sketches of missiles with huge wheels - and that's what gets built.
I bought an AudiTT when living in Eastern Tennessee (billiard smooth roads) that had 18in wheels. When taking a new contract in Pennsylvania, I hit a pothole that literally split my forged rims (passenger side, both).

I ended up putting recut 16in Jetta wheels on it until I sold it the following year as the AWD was great there, but the potholes were not good on it at all!

PS: I blame Chip Foose and Overhaulin' for the big wheel craze post 2000.

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Andres125sx
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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Nice sound even at only half the rpm

I can´t agree with you Jolle, it´s the first and only production fan car, so it literally is revolutionary

Also quite light, extremelly light when compared to any other hipercar, and that is something to praise too when most hipercars weight around a 50% more.

Lightweight + fan + v12. I´d pay a good amount of money to get a drive!

Just_a_fan
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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Jolle wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:29 pm
Looking at the video and the car, it feels more and more like a re-imagined F1 and that is basically almost a 30 year old car with new bits (although, the original F1 was years ahead of its time)

Feels like the new album of an old band. Good, but still an old band with new toys.
My thoughts too. Every angle just screams "F1 updated". And that's something to say, isn't it? The F1 was the game changer. It made the "traditional" supercars look old fashioned and silly, and to this day it's still showing them how to do a high performance lightweight car and nothing else really comes close to that. Yes, things are quicker, and a very few are faster, but nothing has broken the rule book like the F1 did. The T.50 will do, however, because it's even lighter and has more power and has proper active aero, etc.

As they say in the video, if it's the full stop on the petrol-engined car, it's a great way to go.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

Just_a_fan
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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Andres125sx wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:56 pm

I can´t agree with you Jolle, it´s the first and only production fan car, so it literally is revolutionary
The F1 used fan-augmented aero so the T.50 isn't the first "production fan car". It's certainly got the most developed and powerful system, however.

What the T.50 does do is hit the weight targets that Murray originally wanted to set for the F1. The F1 was ridiculously light for its day, but still overweight compared to the brief. The T.50 hits that brief and adds more power too (the F1 had more power than Murray set out in the brief, which helped overcome the added weight.

The F1 was a game changer. The T.50 moves that game on several steps.

I'm looking forward to seeing the T.50 and the Valkyrie in a head to head comparison. [-o<
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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Andres125sx
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:51 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:56 pm

I can´t agree with you Jolle, it´s the first and only production fan car, so it literally is revolutionary
The F1 used fan-augmented aero so the T.50 isn't the first "production fan car". It's certainly got the most developed and powerful system, however.
Wow, didn´t know, I´m in sock right now. Upvoted :wtf:
What the F1 did was, I had two reflex diffusers, very steep, that the air would not normally follow. But only so wide," Murray continued, indicating a width of maybe 20cm or so.

"It had two 140mm fans, sucking the air out of them and when you switched them on we got five percent downforce and a two percent reduction in drag.

"But we had so little time in the wind tunnel because it was the Formula 1 tunnel we were borrowing, effectively.

"I logged it in the memory and I thought 'If ever I do another supercar, I'd like to do that over the whole floor of the car – the diffuser floor – and that's what we've done."
https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/mclare ... force-fans