2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

[sosic2121]

Leclercs mistake was that when he saw max going inside he didn't went in and blocked him totally

You cannot move under braking to block. It's not allowed.

Who says?

When Max moved under braking, they gave penalty to Rosberg

[dans79]

Charles definitely deserved a penalty for that all day long. And Lewis is closer to borderline as he IS substantially ahead, but I could see why he would be penalised

Her is another example, watch Alonso on Vettel. He ran him right of the track and no penalty.

[dans79]

Isn't squeezing someone to the apex that late (as Max was only alongside very late) moving around in the braking zone. I thought that wasn't allowed.

Scrap that. Max has been doing/getting away with that for years.

It's been an unspoken allowed move for a long time. In other words the drivers and stewards have always allowed a driver overtaking on the inside to squeeze the defending driver out. Caveats beings it has to be done in a way that doesn't endanger the defending driver, or cause an accident. You can literally see this almost every season.

Yes(although I don't agree with it), but this time it caused accident.

It caused slow speed contact, not an accident. Contact itself is not a punishable offense.

[dans79]

When Max moved under braking, they gave penalty to Rosberg

That's because of how Rosberg positioned his car, he gave max no chance of ever making the turn (assuming you mean Germany 2016).

Also, etiquette is to reference the race and the year when you are presenting an argument, so others can respond!

[NathanOlder]

Charles definitely deserved a penalty for that all day long. And Lewis is closer to borderline as he IS substantially ahead, but I could see why he would be penalised

Her is another example, watch Alonso on Vettel. He ran him right of the track and no penalty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiub1DnUnkg

Yeah and again, Alonso should have been penalised what's your point?

Even that incident Vettel is on the radio saying "he can't just run me off the road like that" and Alonso was someone who said "you must always leave space".

The drivers all know the rules, but they know the FIA and Stewards are soft touches and can bail out of giving penalties for what should be handing them out for.

All most of the fans want is consistency, they are currently being consistently --- at upholding the law on track! Canada they did the right thing, Austria they didn't.

All you keep doing is showing me times when the stewards were being crap. I already know they are crap, I don't need showing over and over.

[sosic2121]

When Max moved under braking, they gave penalty to Rosberg

That's because of how Rosberg positioned his car, he gave max no chance of ever making the turn (assuming you mean Germany 2016).

Also, etiquette is to reference the race and the year when you are presenting an argument, so others can respond!

Sorry about me not saying it was 2016 Germany.

Nico's positioning of his car was response to max moving under breaking. After that it was impossible for Nico to make a corner and leave enough room for max.

Although I'm a big Alonso fan, I believe he deserved a penalty against Seb in China.
For example I also believe he deserved penalty for overtaking both Massa and Sainz in USA 2016(if my memory serves me well).

[epo]

Charles definitely deserved a penalty for that all day long. And Lewis is closer to borderline as he IS substantially ahead, but I could see why he would be penalised

Her is another example, watch Alonso on Vettel. He ran him right of the track and no penalty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiub1DnUnkg

Yeah and again, Alonso should have been penalised what's your point?

Even that incident Vettel is on the radio saying "he can't just run me off the road like that" and Alonso was someone who said "you must always leave space".

The drivers all know the rules, but they know the FIA and Stewards are soft touches and can bail out of giving penalties for what should be handing them out for.

All most of the fans want is consistency, they are currently being consistently --- at upholding the law on track! Canada they did the right thing, Austria they didn't.

All you keep doing is showing me times when the stewards were being crap. I already know they are crap, I don't need showing over and over.

Dude, please stop. Leclerc went for the penalty move aka schwalbe, he lost, game over try again next time. Please do the same and stop trying.

[dans79]

All you keep doing is showing me times when the stewards were being crap. I already know they are crap, I don't need showing over and over.

We will have to agree to disagree then, because the stewards have been allowing a defending driver to be squeezed out on turn exit for a while now, and i see nothing wrong with it.

The only time it ever gets a penalty is in one of the following cases.

1. Driver on the inside isn't under full control of their car, and causes an incident. (Max on Vettel last year in china)
2. Driver on the inside gives the defending driver no chance of making the turn (Nico on Max in Germany 2016)

[NathanOlder]

Her is another example, watch Alonso on Vettel. He ran him right of the track and no penalty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiub1DnUnkg

Yeah and again, Alonso should have been penalised what's your point?

Even that incident Vettel is on the radio saying "he can't just run me off the road like that" and Alonso was someone who said "you must always leave space".

The drivers all know the rules, but they know the FIA and Stewards are soft touches and can bail out of giving penalties for what should be handing them out for.

All most of the fans want is consistency, they are currently being consistently --- at upholding the law on track! Canada they did the right thing, Austria they didn't.

All you keep doing is showing me times when the stewards were being crap. I already know they are crap, I don't need showing over and over.

Dude, please stop. Leclerc went for the penalty move aka schwalbe, he lost, game over try again next time. Please do the same and stop trying.

Trying what? 8 can't change the decision, I know that. And I'm certainly not alone when it comes to people thinking max should have penalised. You shouldn't be able to run someone off the track when side by side. You cant even do that in nascar. But now its OK in F1

[NathanOlder]

All you keep doing is showing me times when the stewards were being crap. I already know they are crap, I don't need showing over and over.

We will have to agree to disagree then, because the stewards have been allowing a defending driver to be squeezed out on turn exit for a while now, and i see nothing wrong with it.

The only time it ever gets a penalty is in one of the following cases.

1. Driver on the inside isn't under full control of their car, and causes an incident. (Max on Vettel last year in china)
2. Driver on the inside gives the defending driver no chance of making the turn (Nico on Max in Germany 2016)

So your saying max gave Leclerc chance to make the turn?

[dans79]

Nico's positioning of his car was response to max moving under breaking. After that it was impossible for Nico to make a corner and leave enough room for max.

At the time of 2016 German Grand Prix, the no moving under breaking rule wasn't in effect, and was thus allowed as long as it wasn't considered a blocking move. If memory serves the Max rule didn't go into effect until the United states Grand Prix or right after it.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/37741994

[dans79]

So your saying max gave Leclerc chance to make the turn?

On the outside no, but based on the circumstances of the incident Charles had the option and more tan enough space and time to cut up the inside, but he chose to risk it around the outside, Hence the reason why it was deemed a racing incident.

Charles made the decision to go around the outside with full knowledge that a driver on the inside with a compromised line is always going to run wide on exit (as he himself did last year in Japan).

The Stewards specifically stated, 'We did not consider that either driver was wholly or predominantly to blame for the incident.', and this is why Max didn't get a penalty.

[sAx]

So your saying max gave Leclerc chance to make the turn?

On the outside no, but based on the circumstances of the incident Charles had the option and more tan enough space and time to cut up the inside, but he chose to risk it around the outside, Hence the reason why it was deemed a racing incident.

Charles made the decision to go around the outside with full knowledge that a driver on the inside with a compromised line is always going to run wide on exit (as he himself did last year in Japan).

The Stewards specifically stated, 'We did not consider that either driver was wholly or predominantly to blame for the incident.', and this is why Max didn't get a penalty.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... AAZPo6.jpg

Max's on-board seems supportive of the Stewards decision:https://youtu.be/AgF-yYWmpOU?t=407

[henry]

That’s an extraordinary explanation. There was the same amount of space on that lap as there was on the previous lap. Max chose to consume the space which on the previous lap Charles had used. He did so even though Charles was already occupying that space.

I notice there is no reference to the wording of the cited regulations. I wonder why?

[roon]