2019 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 12-14

[Zarathustra]

^ the overtaking part was already done by that point.

Verstappen missed his apex a little a few seconds before.

[jz11]

^ the overtaking part was already done by that point.

Verstappen missed his apex a little a few seconds before.

this getting comical...

[siskue2005]

https://amp.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... ssion=true

Bottas admitting that the 2 stopper was a mistake and that the 1 stopper was quicker. Can we put the ‘safety car ruined Bottas’ race’ to bed now?

No, coz that would mean they have to admit that the race was won on merit by Lewis! Which is a big no no

[Big Tea]

One of the British TV interviewers called him 'The Postman' ('Cos he always delivers). I think this sums him up perfectly. You can say X/Y/Z/ is better than him in this/that/ the other way, but when the chips are down and it is just him and the car V the world, My money will be on Lewis until further notice. Just as in the Schumacher years, I would have always gone for him.

It is one of those things that transcends reality, it just IS

[dtro]

Maybe we should have an overtake committee, it'll be just like U.S. Congress, nothing will ever be decided on and races will end the way they began. Contact will eventually become a thing of the past, and then maybe drivers could be fired and replaced by robots that albeit are slower but more likely to follow the command of the overtake committee. Following adoption of the overtake committee we can all be safe in the knowledge that no gray areas will be exploited to the end of overtaking another driver. Sounds like a plan.

The British GP was the best of the year period. Sorry (insert driver here) was "unfairly treated" to whoever feels their favorite driver was "unfairly treated." Less Bathurst but Butthurts here sometimes.

[zibby43]

He´s the fastest on the grid, with the fastest car, so he does not even need to push himself to the limit that often wich again minimize driver mistakes.

Except in Bahrain and Canada, where he was pushing flat-out, chasing faster Ferraris. In Bahrain, he ended up passing VET, who then spun behind him.

And in Canada, he was glued to the back of VET all race until VET had his off-track excursion.

Last year, Hamilton went from 14th to 1st in Germany. He did a fair bit of pushing that race. Or even Silverstone '18, when he was spun to the back through no fault of his own and recovered to 2nd.

Just think you're a bit off base with that one, in my opinion.

[jz11]

Maybe we should have an overtake committee, it'll be just like U.S. Congress, nothing will ever be decided on and races will end the way they began. Contact will eventually become a thing of the past, and then maybe drivers could be fired and replaced by robots that albeit are slower but more likely to follow the command of the overtake committee. Following adoption of the overtake committee we can all be safe in the knowledge that no gray areas will be exploited to the end of overtaking another driver. Sounds like a plan.

The British GP was the best of the year period. Sorry (insert driver here) was "unfairly treated" to whoever feels their favorite driver was "unfairly treated." Less Bathurst but Butthurts here sometimes.

the "overtake committee" is already in session, very busy ignoring the rule book for couple races now to protect the show

I already made it very clear previously, I don't defend Vettel or Leclerc, not even Ferrari, I don't consider myself as a fan of any driver, all I want is to see a fair competition where competitors respect the rules of the game and the sport in general, and "your boy" constantly is pushing the limit of what is considered legal, and keeps getting away with some blatantly illegal moves because of the politics surrounding the sport, which is the reason I very much dislike his personality, he is talented and fast, but the arrogance and sense of entitlement just makes him unbearable for me

that being said, I hope he soon gets a chance of a shot at the WDC, then we might actually see what his character and racing ability really is, when he has to think about the whole season, not just the current race, but so far Leclerc has impressed me much more than Verstappen ever has, in his 5th year in the series

there is already one example of a driver coming out of the RB young driver program, highly praised at the time, yet somehow now people have changed their opinions of him, and the guy has 4 WDC titles, against Verstappens 5(?) race wins in 90+ starts

edit: I see no point of continuing this bickering, I'm off till next race (at least)

[dtro]

Maybe we should have an overtake committee, it'll be just like U.S. Congress, nothing will ever be decided on and races will end the way they began. Contact will eventually become a thing of the past, and then maybe drivers could be fired and replaced by robots that albeit are slower but more likely to follow the command of the overtake committee. Following adoption of the overtake committee we can all be safe in the knowledge that no gray areas will be exploited to the end of overtaking another driver. Sounds like a plan.

The British GP was the best of the year period. Sorry (insert driver here) was "unfairly treated" to whoever feels their favorite driver was "unfairly treated." Less Bathurst but Butthurts here sometimes.

the "overtake committee" is already in session, very busy ignoring the rule book for couple races now to protect the show

I already made it very clear previously, I don't defend Vettel or Leclerc, not even Ferrari, I don't consider myself as a fan of any driver, all I want is to see a fair competition where competitors respect the rules of the game and the sport in general, and "your boy" constantly is pushing the limit of what is considered legal, and keeps getting away with some blatantly illegal moves because of the politics surrounding the sport, which is the reason I very much dislike his personality, he is talented and fast, but the arrogance and sense of entitlement just makes him unbearable for me

that being said, I hope he soon gets a chance of a shot at the WDC, then we might actually see what his character and racing ability really is, when he has to think about the whole season, not just the current race, but so far Leclerc has impressed me much more than Verstappen ever has, in his 5th year in the series

there is already one example of a driver coming out of the RB young driver program, highly praised at the time, yet somehow now people have changed their opinions of him, and the guy has 4 WDC titles, against Verstappens 5(?) race wins in 90+ starts

edit: I see no point of continuing this bickering, I'm off till next race (at least)

There is at least two weeks of material to unpack from this race, frankly.

The overtake committee doesn't exist yet, luckily, before you overtake you must file a formal request to overtake with the committee two weeks prior to the formation lap. second you must petition the party you wish to overtake if the committee perceived the your overtake wouldn't come at the cost of said parties possible claim of butthurt.

As I see it, Max was essentially the first of the Playstation generation to really get going in F1 is my feeling. It took him quite a bit of time to stop hitting walls and other competitors without taking himself out of contention interrupted by odd moments of brilliance in cars that were ok at best. In the same breath, the kid started in F1 before he had a driver's license or peach fuzz, am I surprised that his growth has been sporadic, not really. All that being said, would F1 be far more boring if Idk Jean Eric Vergne was in his seat? Most likely. Do I like him? Not particularly as a human being, but my opinion is irrelevant, all things considered.

Charles bigged up himself since Austria, honestly he should've known that a driver he raced with before, and has first hand experience of his propensities would be more capable of defending himself. In Silverstone Charles proved that he was willing to go as far as Max in terms of a robust defense or offense. Hopefully, and I agree with you on this, that Ferrari at very least gives Charles and Seb equal treatment.

Idk about you but I liked pretty much everything I saw on Sunday. From the gentleman-like "no, after you" between the Mercedes drivers, to the obliviousness of the Haas drivers, also Williams was there.

Either way, hope next race is more to your liking.

[komninosm]

First laps were truly amazing. I have a renowed respect for Bottas, it was amazing how he defended his position from Hamilton´s extreme pressure. He truly deserved to win but this SC was a joke, and also the strategy.

Bottas deserve to win?
Your Hamilton hate is oozing out mate.
SC was a joke? Did you even watch the race?
Strategy? Bottas ruined his own tires trying to block Hamilton. It's his own fault he had to pit early. So much for deserving to win...

Calm down, I have never hated a single driver, hate is only for the worst enemies and even in that case I try to avoid this feeling.

I think the SC was not necessary, in my opinión a VSC was enough. Bottas did a great qualy and his defense against Hamilton was great, and yes, because of this I think he deserved to win. If you can´t accept my point of view, its your damn problem.

Obviously, most people usually do not really hate "famous" people. It's just a kind of posturing and a product of sociology and team support. But it is usually understand what is meant when people say I hate Federer and I want Nadal to win or whatever. And the bias that exists often is very real. So, yes I am calm and I really think you are too in all likelihood. We are still both biased though, in (importantly) varying degrees.

VSC would not change a single thing btw. It would still allow Hamilton to come easily ahead of Bottas and it would also allow the Mercedes to keep their distance to the other teams (allowing Bottas to pit easier for 2nd place again).
I'm not sure, but from what others said, since they had to bring a truck-crane out they had to do a proper SC. I do think it's playing it too safe maybe (BIanci safe) and the track didn't need to be cleaned up so a VSC would have worked too.

Bottas defense was quite good, but he burnt his tires trying to drive on Hamilton's level. He was also passed in equal cars and got position back because Hamilton didn't want to make his teammate uncomfortable and even having to think of causing a touch from closing the line after he passed Bottas like he could have.
It's also very difficult to pass in equal cars and driving so close for so many laps without burning your engine and breaks and tires was far more amazing a feat by Hamilton than Bottas's defense.
Not even Bottas thinks he deserved to win this one, he didn't even get the fastest lap in the end...

Finally, this is not about people accepting your point of view and letting you be. This is a discussion. We say our opinions and we expect to be critiqued. Not all opinions are equally valid or well supported.
This sort of thinking, that my opinion is beyond criticism and anyone who doesn't accept it and argues against it is stepping over the line is frankly a very poor stance to have. It is reminiscent of many things...
I will let others judge this too as you won't be taking my word for it, now. It (my opinion) has a very low value in your consideration as your comment itself reveals. You view me as problematic. So, surprise me... if you can.

[komninosm]

Trying to track Vettel's Ferrari history of mistakes.

Has anybody documented each season, race and how the crash/problem occurred.

Be very interesting to see the trend, especially the last two years.

TBH it’s not just the mistakes. It’s his whole demeanour.

Every time I see a meltdown like in Canada it strikes me as somebody who is under extreme pressure who doesn’t seem very happy. The smile seems to have gone and I feel for the bloke.

I honestly think if Vettel had gotten a black flag 2 years ago in Baku and was forced to apologize he would be a better driver today. I think he's living a lie of sorts all this time. If he had been forced to face his worst self back then he would have been able to hit the reset button and recover his mentality pretty soon.
I mean the guy is not slow, he's won 3 championships too, he at least beat his team mates even if he had best car (not always so).
I think it's partly the Ferrari influence too (team and fans). If he had been in another team and gotten punished properly in Baku he wouldn't have the bad psychology festering in his mind all this time.

[Jolle]

Trying to track Vettel's Ferrari history of mistakes.

Has anybody documented each season, race and how the crash/problem occurred.

Be very interesting to see the trend, especially the last two years.

TBH it’s not just the mistakes. It’s his whole demeanour.

Every time I see a meltdown like in Canada it strikes me as somebody who is under extreme pressure who doesn’t seem very happy. The smile seems to have gone and I feel for the bloke.

I honestly think if Vettel had gotten a black flag 2 years ago in Baku and was forced to apologize he would be a better driver today. I think he's living a lie of sorts all this time. If he had been forced to face his worst self back then he would have been able to hit the reset button and recover his mentality pretty soon.
I mean the guy is not slow, he's won 3 championships too, he at least beat his team mates even if he had best car (not always so).
I think it's partly the Ferrari influence too (team and fans). If he had been in another team and gotten punished properly in Baku he wouldn't have the bad psychology festering in his mind all this time.

Baku was already the product of what happend in 2016, a disappointing year after a 2015 went well and set expectations. His rant against Charlie Whiting at the Mexican Grand Prix that year with the behaviour on track during those final laps were, in hindsight, the beginning of this behaviour.

[Jolle]

Thinking about Vettel’s behavior, Hamilton also had a period where everything went wrong and looked like he and other drivers were made out of magnets. Mclaren made a dog of a car in ‘09, spy gate scandal and lost his clear no one position in the team with another WC joining him. But, he took on the challenge and fought trough it. Same a bit with Verstappen at his early age. After Monaco last year he found his self confidence again.

Vettel’s career skyrocketed within a driver focused team without any setbacks and the first year it didn’t he gave up. At Ferrari it looks like he’s out of his depth, like a manager was promoted to high. He doesn’t seems to be in control. Maybe a comparison with Alonso is right here, who performed at his best with Briatore organizing everything around him and the moment he left that safety to join McLaren, he felt uncomfortable. Even at Ferrari he wasn’t able to fully recreate and sustain that level of focus around him.
What really would help if Ferrari would have a strong leader, like Brawn of someone with that experience. It’s still a real shame, because I would have loved to see Schumacher in that kind of consulting/coaching job.

[Restomaniac]

All very valid points from both of you. I just think the Ferrari pressure has broken him and you know they won’t like that he admitted it’s was his mistake on Sunday.
Like I say the smile has gone and his was always the smiling sort. For a nationality that isn’t famous for its humour Seb has some (as an example him calling it out when he made reference to Rosberg not being able to smile in a press conference because he is German) but not now, at times he looks utterly miserable.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he called it a day at the end of the season. For me what he needs to do is get out of the firing line and do as Raikkonen has done. Forget about titles and wins and just go out and race a bit for fun, I’m sure the likes of Haas would happily welcome him with open arms. He has his 4 WDCs and nobody will ever take them away from him but I do wonder if this Ferrari gig is worth his sanity!

[TAG]

Let's be fair to Vettel here, the common denominator is Ferrari, it's happened to three most recent champions to drive for them.

[ENGINE TUNER]

I honestly think if Vettel had gotten a black flag 2 years ago in Baku and was forced to apologize he would be a better driver today. I think he's living a lie of sorts all this time. If he had been forced to face his worst self back then he would have been able to hit the reset button and recover his mentality pretty soon.
I mean the guy is not slow, he's won 3 championships too, he at least beat his team mates even if he had best car (not always so).
I think it's partly the Ferrari influence too (team and fans). If he had been in another team and gotten punished properly in Baku he wouldn't have the bad psychology festering in his mind all this time.

What about when he crashed into webber behind the safety car in 2007 Japan, no penalty, then he crashed into webber again in 2010 Turkey, again no penalty and the team tried to put some blame on Webber, also he crashed into Karthekeyan in Malaysia 2012 and the idiotic stewards penalized KAR instead of a fully at fault VET. He has been coddled as the golden child his entire career and that is exactly why he has never needed to fix his behavior.