[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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TNTHead
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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The gap of 0,5s at a short track came as a surprise, same time as last year is disappointing. Especially the gap increased in Q3 suggesting that the party mode of Merc has much greater effect than the Honda?

Very curious about tomorrows race, but also next week. Then we might see if it is down to dialing in setup and upgrades or just lacking on one or more aspects.
Btw a lap comparison (onboard or chart) might be helpful

SmallSoldier
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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godlameroso wrote:We'll see if starting on the mediums help. I feel the softs will start being slower than the mediums by lap 15. With medium hard you can do a 1 stopper. Everyone else will have to do 2 or struggle at the end.
The analysis said that it should be a one stop, with a Soft - Medium as the fastest option and a Soft - Hard coming in second


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Revs84
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Today Mercedes clearly dominated the field, however, I think it's too early for such doom and gloom comments.

We need to take into consideration several factors and look at the bigger picture.

Please note that these are only theories based on some known and historical facts, but they are still theories. With that said, they would definitely be things I'd consider if I were in their shoes.

From an engine point of view there a few facts we need to look at:

1. Only 8 races have so far been confirmed. At the time of writing, no other races have been confirmed and it could well be that no more races will be, in which case, only 1 of each engine component will be allowed without a penalty. Historically we all know Honda are generally more cautious than their rivals, and having stated themselves that they want to go through the season penalty free, it could well be they might be holding back.

2. Further to the above, the spec 1.1 is an upgraded version of the spec 1 they tested in pre-season testing. Historically, we know Honda are always extremely cautious when launching a new spec. So again, they might be holding a little back for the first race until they are more confident. I wouldn't be surprised if in the second round of Austria they turn the engine up just that little bit more.

3. Someone commented on Honda losing their quali mode. I truly doubt this - why would they? If anything, they might use a less aggressive map - for the exact reasons mentioned above. Quali modes degrade engines very quickly, so I wouldn't be surprised that if this is indeed the case, they would only reserve their highest modes for later in the season when they have better clarity on the amount of races and/or if they fall behind Mercedes in the championship. Keep in mind that last year Red Bull used 5 engines and they were never in championship contention. Using such mappings had much less risk as there was less at stake.

And from a chassis point of view:

4. My impression has always been that Red Bull's high rake philosophy is hard to get right. Not only design-wise but also setup-wise. I doubt Max would have said that he wasn't fully happy with the balance if it really wasn't the case. My one and biggest worry is that if there is a fundamental issue with this year's design and not just setup, fixing it might be quite tricky with the token system.

I truly believe that there's more to the fact that Red Bull were slightly slower than last year's quali. This just doesn't add up - especially knowing that Honda gained more power in the last year and the RB15 wasn't exactly an easy car to either set up or drive. Unless, something is truly fundamentally wrong with the RB16. Personally, I believe there's much more potential in this year's package that still needs to unleashed.

The facts that Mercedes' car has been historically more tame to set up, and with the team being so phenomenal at starting a championship running from the first race, does not help much in this case.

However, I still believe that we should wait until Hungary to call it. Until then, let's see how tomorrow goes and take it from there :)

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godlameroso
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... JMxhH.html

Verstappen was slower in the straights and in the corners, the Mercedes understeered less, everywhere except the hairpin.
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Jaisonas
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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I think you guys are making the engine matter a lot worse than it actually is.
The fact is that mercedes at this point has an engine at least as strong as ferrari's last year one. The majority of the time was lost at the high speed corners on second and third sectors and if you watch Juzh's video of Verstappen's lap with the telemetry, the car has fantastic acceleration and top speed.

Chicane
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Let us clear out a few things

1] Bottas was a couple of tenth up on his lap before he binned it. So if Marko thinks they lost a couple of tenths due to setup then Mercedes drivers easily had 2 to 3 tenths in their pocket as well.

2] Onboards paint a very clear picture. Mercedes drivers don't need to make corrections around the lap but Max had to take a couple of stabs at the steering on more than one occasion around the lap.

3] Mercedes appear to have a more planted car, more predictable and easier to drive. This plays a big role in tire wear and long run pace.

4] Redbull have not designed a bad car just that Mercedes have pulled away and the likes of Mclaren, Racing Point and Renault have closed the gap to them. Racing Point's long run pace was better than Red Bull's on Friday. Now that is something that should worry Redbull.

5] Redbull appear to have not gained much, like they have stood still. Lando Norris with only one bite at the cherry got within tenth and a half of Max.

6] This chassis is frozen bar two tokens. The engine is frozen. Aero is the by product of chassis beneath it. You cannot cover up chassis deficiencies if the chassis underneath is providing a stable and consistent platform for the aero to perform. I think Redbull will spend more time looking at the Racing Points and Mclarens in the rear view mirrors than fighting with Mercs at the front. Max will most likely finish third in the drivers and Redbull second in the constructors in 2020 and there is very high chance for the recipe to repeat in 2021.
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etusch
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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bottas tenths faster? That is why he could not finished the lap. It was out of car's capability.

Pany
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Fantastic drive really.
I have the impression in acceleration the engine is detuned a little. I guess they will increase bit of power race by race, hopefully.
Jaisonas wrote:
05 Jul 2020, 01:45
I think you guys are making the engine matter a lot worse than it actually is.
The fact is that mercedes at this point has an engine at least as strong as ferrari's last year one. The majority of the time was lost at the high speed corners on second and third sectors and if you watch Juzh's video of Verstappen's lap with the telemetry, the car has fantastic acceleration and top speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XtBkWGIXgc

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Juzh
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Chicane wrote:
05 Jul 2020, 07:21
Let us clear out a few things

1] Bottas was a couple of tenth up on his lap before he binned it. So if Marko thinks they lost a couple of tenths due to setup then Mercedes drivers easily had 2 to 3 tenths in their pocket as well.

2] Onboards paint a very clear picture. Mercedes drivers don't need to make corrections around the lap but Max had to take a couple of stabs at the steering on more than one occasion around the lap.

3] Mercedes appear to have a more planted car, more predictable and easier to drive. This plays a big role in tire wear and long run pace.
Been saying this since pre-season test after watching quite literally every minute of it during the lockdown, but some people here still insisted RB has a chance, verstappen lifted on his fast lap, looking for excuses as to why bottas was able to do 15.7 on the second day, etc, etc.. when to me it was completely obvious mercedes was sandbagging to an enourmous extent on their fastest laps, while everyone else didn't or did it to a much lesser extent.

RB car was fishtailing troughout entire test, but mercedes was completely planted and able to do fast laptime out of the box, and always, with ease. Verstappen had to really dig deep to get that 16.2 on the board and then couldnt go faster. Signs were there for people who looked for them.

To me, yesterdays result is completely expected and non-surprising.

closed1001
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Compared to last year's lap the car is slower in the straights and the fast corners and faster in the slow corners.

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godlameroso
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Juzh wrote:
05 Jul 2020, 09:46
Chicane wrote:
05 Jul 2020, 07:21
Let us clear out a few things

1] Bottas was a couple of tenth up on his lap before he binned it. So if Marko thinks they lost a couple of tenths due to setup then Mercedes drivers easily had 2 to 3 tenths in their pocket as well.

2] Onboards paint a very clear picture. Mercedes drivers don't need to make corrections around the lap but Max had to take a couple of stabs at the steering on more than one occasion around the lap.

3] Mercedes appear to have a more planted car, more predictable and easier to drive. This plays a big role in tire wear and long run pace.
Been saying this since pre-season test after watching quite literally every minute of it during the lockdown, but some people here still insisted RB has a chance, verstappen lifted on his fast lap, looking for excuses as to why bottas was able to do 15.7 on the second day, etc, etc.. when to me it was completely obvious mercedes was sandbagging to an enourmous extent on their fastest laps, while everyone else didn't or did it to a much lesser extent.

RB car was fishtailing troughout entire test, but mercedes was completely planted and able to do fast laptime out of the box, and always, with ease. Verstappen had to really dig deep to get that 16.2 on the board and then couldnt go faster. Signs were there for people who looked for them.

To me, yesterdays result is completely expected and non-surprising.
15.7 vs 16.2 is .5 which is the average gap in race pace during testing, lo and behold .5 seconds back in qualifying.

They could have turned up with last year's car, and been just as fast. Would have saved a lot of money.
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Sieper
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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I don’t think it is realistic that RBR did not improve in comparison to last year. Next week they will hopefully show that.

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godlameroso
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Sieper wrote:
05 Jul 2020, 13:06
I don’t think it is realistic that RBR did not improve in comparison to last year. Next week they will hopefully show that.
The race will show us. Last year Verstappen had a fastest lap of 1:07.5 and did a handful of 1:07's during the race towards the end. Let's see if he can repeat that kind of pace or slightly improve on it
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Sieper
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Race Will be telling indeed, and then we have a next weekend where we can see more.

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Wouter
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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