2021 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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As for the name change, it's just a different place for the association to write off the F1 expenses and still stay F1.

With regards to where they fall this year. I agree they are targeting 2022 but I would consider it a failure if they don't finish ahead of McLaren if they don't bring in the new PU. If they do bring in the new PU then I think they'll finish behind McLaren.

I think RP will have a faster car than both Renault, McLaren and challenge RBR for 2nd. There is a caviot there. There have been changes to the regulation to prevent photocoping cars and having that tuned into designs. So I have no idea how that will play out. Nor do we know how Vettel will play out but he should be as good as Perez, Stroll should be one more year the Wiser.

Ferrari is a complete wild card. I find it hard to believe their PU will recover enough to compete this year dispite what they say.

selvam_e2002
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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I would say, Alpine/Renault would do better job compared to last year.
RP and Meclaren will suffer,specifically Meclaren as they are changing the manufacture. It is difficult to setup a car with new manufacture and limited testing.

my guess would be Renault in 3rd place at the end of 2021

zack!
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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Alpine will bring an updated engine, and an improved aero especially in the rear. On the contrary McLaren will spent token on engine integration, and will perhaps loose aero or car balance...Concerning Aston, they will probably "step back" or "slow down" due to end of technology transfer from mercedes. So my view, is that Alpine should be ahead of those 2 (but will be close again). I am more concerned by ferrari, that will probably come back at the front with a fixed engine (and perhaps a new nose concept ?).

Jolle
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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majki2111 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:18 pm
So what people actually expect from this team next year? Did Alpine taking over Renault had any financial impact in context of pure result next season? Just a question from one Alonso fan on it for adjusting the expectation for next season.

After following F1 since 2006 every race and after seeing Gasly winning in Torro Rosso against the odds and Perez in Force India, can they eye for a win in 2021, eventough Force India and Torro Rosso made it before Renault?
Renault is a company that is supported/owned by the french government. It’s bad for the public imagine, especially in times of greater financial support not to go bust, that they run a multi million euro racing program where guys worth millions go racing. To have Alpine, Ferrari and AMG “feels” better then Renault, Fiat and Mercedes. Shame Honda didn’t switch to Mugen.

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diffuser
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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zack! wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:07 pm
Alpine will bring an updated engine, and an improved aero especially in the rear. On the contrary McLaren will spent token on engine integration, and will perhaps loose aero or car balance...Concerning Aston, they will probably "step back" or "slow down" due to end of technology transfer from mercedes. So my view, is that Alpine should be ahead of those 2 (but will be close again). I am more concerned by ferrari, that will probably come back at the front with a fixed engine (and perhaps a new nose concept ?).
I haven't seen that new PU for 2021 news said anywhere but that one site. So I am hopeful but realistic in that it will be the same old till we hear collaborative evidence.

Jolle
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:25 pm
zack! wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:07 pm
Alpine will bring an updated engine, and an improved aero especially in the rear. On the contrary McLaren will spent token on engine integration, and will perhaps loose aero or car balance...Concerning Aston, they will probably "step back" or "slow down" due to end of technology transfer from mercedes. So my view, is that Alpine should be ahead of those 2 (but will be close again). I am more concerned by ferrari, that will probably come back at the front with a fixed engine (and perhaps a new nose concept ?).
I haven't seen that new PU for 2021 news said anywhere but that one site. So I am hopeful but realistic in that it will be the same old till we hear collaborative evidence.
Without the pressure of an ambitious customer team, they don’t have to boast about it either. They can just silently work instead of shouting “next update will give us 50hp” every other week to keep a certain doctor happy

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diffuser
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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Jolle wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:56 am
diffuser wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:25 pm
zack! wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:07 pm
Alpine will bring an updated engine, and an improved aero especially in the rear. On the contrary McLaren will spent token on engine integration, and will perhaps loose aero or car balance...Concerning Aston, they will probably "step back" or "slow down" due to end of technology transfer from mercedes. So my view, is that Alpine should be ahead of those 2 (but will be close again). I am more concerned by ferrari, that will probably come back at the front with a fixed engine (and perhaps a new nose concept ?).
I haven't seen that new PU for 2021 news said anywhere but that one site. So I am hopeful but realistic in that it will be the same old till we hear collaborative evidence.
Without the pressure of an ambitious customer team, they don’t have to boast about it either. They can just silently work instead of shouting “next update will give us 50hp” every other week to keep a certain doctor happy
I hear what you saying but I am no more convinced :)

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RedNEO
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:25 pm
zack! wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:07 pm
Alpine will bring an updated engine, and an improved aero especially in the rear. On the contrary McLaren will spent token on engine integration, and will perhaps loose aero or car balance...Concerning Aston, they will probably "step back" or "slow down" due to end of technology transfer from mercedes. So my view, is that Alpine should be ahead of those 2 (but will be close again). I am more concerned by ferrari, that will probably come back at the front with a fixed engine (and perhaps a new nose concept ?).
I haven't seen that new PU for 2021 news said anywhere but that one site. So I am hopeful but realistic in that it will be the same old till we hear collaborative evidence.
You have now..
Fry said that with Renault having made good aero gains this year, it was important the team built on that throughout 2021.

Asked where the focus for the team's new challenger would be, he said: "Other than nose, chassis, engine and gearbox, we're looking at reviewing most of it. I think it'll be the same for everyone.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-2 ... n=widget-1

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diffuser
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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So that sounds like a no.

the EDGE
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:57 pm
So that sounds like a no.
Certainly sounds like a No to me... interesting comment about their competition however...
"I guess McLaren can change more than most because, obviously with a power unit change, that allows you to change a load of other bits of the car outside the normal homologation side of things."

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diffuser
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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the EDGE wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:05 pm
diffuser wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:57 pm
So that sounds like a no.
Certainly sounds like a No to me... interesting comment about their competition however...
"I guess McLaren can change more than most because, obviously with a power unit change, that allows you to change a load of other bits of the car outside the normal homologation side of things."
That's like stating the obvious no? They're using 2 tokens to do it.

Like saying "Alpine will have the most changed cooling". Obviously with a cooling change, that allows you to change a load of other bits of the car outside the normal homologation side of things.

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RedNEO
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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Via Viryfan on autosport boards
Per Abiteboul on Autohebdo:

- Plans were caught off guard by COVID in 2020 as it delayed new regulations
- There was a lot of carry over from 2019 to 2020 car despite new aero concept
- So they will be able to do wholesale change to the car for 2021 (Evolution will be as big as in 2020)
- Two of the Tokens will be used around suspensions in order to improve rear end aerodynamics
Rear suspension does take up two tokens so that does check out. However putting in a new engine doesn’t necessarily take up any tokens unless it’s switching suppliers/new architecture so it’s still unknown if Renault would need tokens like the Spanish article seems to think they won’t. Maybe it will only have elements of the new engine that can be changed without tokens.

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diffuser
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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RedNEO wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:55 pm
Via Viryfan on autosport boards
Per Abiteboul on Autohebdo:

- Plans were caught off guard by COVID in 2020 as it delayed new regulations
- There was a lot of carry over from 2019 to 2020 car despite new aero concept
- So they will be able to do wholesale change to the car for 2021 (Evolution will be as big as in 2020)
- Two of the Tokens will be used around suspensions in order to improve rear end aerodynamics
Rear suspension does take up two tokens so that does check out. However putting in a new engine doesn’t necessarily take up any tokens unless it’s switching suppliers/new architecture so it’s still unknown if Renault would need tokens like the Spanish article seems to think they won’t. Maybe it will only have elements of the new engine that can be changed without tokens.
Asked where the focus for the team's new challenger would be, he said: "Other than nose, chassis, engine and gearbox, we're looking at reviewing most of it. I think it'll be the same for everyone.


That means no changes to the engine.


The new PU has a front compressor, mid ICE MGU-H and turbine behind the ICE. That would mean that the PU would sit further back from the driver, closer to the rear wheels and therefore need a new gearbox too. Not to mention that this would all mess with the car's bal;ance so you'd probably need to mess with the wheelbase or soemthing like that.

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RedNEO
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:56 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:55 pm
Via Viryfan on autosport boards
Per Abiteboul on Autohebdo:

- Plans were caught off guard by COVID in 2020 as it delayed new regulations
- There was a lot of carry over from 2019 to 2020 car despite new aero concept
- So they will be able to do wholesale change to the car for 2021 (Evolution will be as big as in 2020)
- Two of the Tokens will be used around suspensions in order to improve rear end aerodynamics
Rear suspension does take up two tokens so that does check out. However putting in a new engine doesn’t necessarily take up any tokens unless it’s switching suppliers/new architecture so it’s still unknown if Renault would need tokens like the Spanish article seems to think they won’t. Maybe it will only have elements of the new engine that can be changed without tokens.
Asked where the focus for the team's new challenger would be, he said: "Other than nose, chassis, engine and gearbox, we're looking at reviewing most of it. I think it'll be the same for everyone.


That means no changes to the engine.


The new PU has a front compressor, mid ICE MGU-H and turbine behind the ICE. That would mean that the PU would sit further back from the driver, closer to the rear wheels and therefore need a new gearbox too. Not to mention that this would all mess with the car's bal;ance so you'd probably need to mess with the wheelbase or soemthing like that.
Is this speculation? I’ve not heard such a detailed analysis of the new engine like this before.

Jolle
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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RedNEO wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:55 pm
diffuser wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:56 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:55 pm
Via Viryfan on autosport boards


Rear suspension does take up two tokens so that does check out. However putting in a new engine doesn’t necessarily take up any tokens unless it’s switching suppliers/new architecture so it’s still unknown if Renault would need tokens like the Spanish article seems to think they won’t. Maybe it will only have elements of the new engine that can be changed without tokens.
Asked where the focus for the team's new challenger would be, he said: "Other than nose, chassis, engine and gearbox, we're looking at reviewing most of it. I think it'll be the same for everyone.


That means no changes to the engine.


The new PU has a front compressor, mid ICE MGU-H and turbine behind the ICE. That would mean that the PU would sit further back from the driver, closer to the rear wheels and therefore need a new gearbox too. Not to mention that this would all mess with the car's bal;ance so you'd probably need to mess with the wheelbase or soemthing like that.
Is this speculation? I’ve not heard such a detailed analysis of the new engine like this before.
If this is true, and they are going to change the layout of the engine (and therefore the chassis and balance) so much, looks like they are writing off 2021 more or less to have a homologated new engine design for '22. This will widen the gap from the current midfield, who all are doing the same thing one way or the other, to the top two even bigger in the short term.