2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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SuperCNJ wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:11 pm
SiLo wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:55 pm
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... h-gp-crash

I'm genuinely amazed they are continuing with this.
I'm not. Given the strong resentment that RB has shown after the crash it is definitely not surprising to me.

But I'm just wondering, obviously there could be one of several outcomes of a review, could a potential outcome be that LH was actually wrongly penalised (i.e. he was too heavily penalised) following a review? Or are the only possible outcomes either the original decision was correct or he needed to be penalised more?
Unless the new and significant evidence proposed by Red Bull is earth shattering, it's unlikely anything will change. Changing a penalty after the result has been classified will not be done lightly, they would not want to set a precedent that penalties could be so easily be overturned.

I suspect the "new" evidence will be Verstappen's statement, which is unlikely to have any impact on the penalty i.e. it's expected he will blame the other party, just as Hamilton will blame Verstappen. The stewards don't care who the driver thought was at fault, they want to hear mitigation.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Verstappen has A LOT of questions from the Stewards left to be answered. Actually it may be best for him not to enter the interrogation room at all. Self-implication is often unexpected. Imagine him getting a 3 spot penalty in Hungary!
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rickybobbyf1
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:15 am
Verstappen has A LOT of questions from the Stewards left to be answered. Actually it may be best for him not to enter the interrogation room at all. Self-implication is often unexpected. Imagine him getting a 3 spot penalty in Hungary!
Yeah, I guess so, but isn’t his team the one pushing for the meeting? I really doubt they could go all out pushing for this for their driver to go in and expose himself of any wrong doing. Tbh, I hope Merc fights this hard, it would be a shame for Ham to get more penalties (points, time, or grid drops). 10s was fine, a bit harsh, but done because he was able to continue. They shouldn’t penalize him for how good he is. If it was Bottas maybe he wouldn’t have won the race, who knows. Hamilton is great and has a decent car; therefore, he was able to pull it off. Both Merc and rb had huge crashes this year, let them be…

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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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rickybobbyf1 wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:59 am
Yeah, I guess so, but isn’t his team the one pushing for the meeting? I really doubt they could go all out pushing for this for their driver to go in and expose himself of any wrong doing.
it doesn't look like he has a choice!
https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/27/off ... collision/
The team submitted a petition for a review on Friday. The two drivers and representatives of their teams have been summoned to appear before the stewards via a video link at 4pm Central European Summer Time on Thursday, ahead of the Hungarian Grand Prix weekend.
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:09 am
rickybobbyf1 wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:59 am
Yeah, I guess so, but isn’t his team the one pushing for the meeting? I really doubt they could go all out pushing for this for their driver to go in and expose himself of any wrong doing.
it doesn't look like he has a choice!
https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/27/off ... collision/
The team submitted a petition for a review on Friday. The two drivers and representatives of their teams have been summoned to appear before the stewards via a video link at 4pm Central European Summer Time on Thursday, ahead of the Hungarian Grand Prix weekend.
Then I really hope Ham does not admit to more fault. He has raised the hand before and gotten burned for it, I can’t remember the race. Let’s hope for the best!

Edit: more fault that what the stewards deemed he was “guilty” for. It was a racing incident after all

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ringo
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Mercedes will probably bring evidence to remove Hamilton's penalty points. So it may backfire in horner's face.
Lewis was following to rules of engagement for overtaking. He really did nothing wrong.
Mercedes can also point to Max's steering inputs and him looking in his mirror as evidence he knew exactly where Lewis was and still decided to cut across. So Lewis can come out leaving in better shape.

It's tough they lost 1.8 million in damages, but that's the name of the game. They can deduct it from Max's salary.
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Phil
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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I would love if if Verstappen walks away after this hearing with some penalty points of his own and a grid penalty. Would teach the teams & specifically RedBull some lessons with their own medicine.
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:55 am
Mercedes will probably bring evidence to remove Hamilton's penalty points.
Phil wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:17 pm
I would love if if Verstappen walks away after this hearing with some penalty points of his own and a grid penalty. Would teach the teams & specifically RedBull some lessons with their own medicine.
It's highly unlikely that would happen, again they could have applied a penalty at the time, there would need to be significant new information for the stewards to come to that decision.

Also, that's not what will happen after tomorrow's hearing. Tomorrow is just about seeing if there is a justifiable reason to re-open the investigation, there won't be any changes to the penalty after tomorrow, just an update on if they are even going to take a further look at it. One outcome could be they choose to re-open the case with the new evidence, and then after taking the new evidence in to account, they could come to the same outcome.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Phil wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:17 pm
I would love if if Verstappen walks away after this hearing with some penalty points of his own and a grid penalty. Would teach the teams & specifically RedBull some lessons with their own medicine.
I would feel quite sorry for him. Its not he that has been performing. Some slap for the management maybe, like costs?
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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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I just don't see the grounds for them re-examining this. It's clear there was no intention on the part of either driver to put the other out of the race. The only thing I can think is that they are going to try and sell a narrative that Hamilton deliberately punted Verstappen off the road, which he clearly didn't. The contact IS Verstappen's rear wheel catching up with Hamilton's front wheel. Were it Hamilton's wheel catching up with Verstappen's then maybe they might be able to spin more of a case.

I'm sure Mercedes will bring up the first lap of the sprint race, and also the Stroll incident and RBR's attitude toward that incident.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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rickybobbyf1 wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:12 am
dans79 wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:09 am
rickybobbyf1 wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:59 am
Yeah, I guess so, but isn’t his team the one pushing for the meeting? I really doubt they could go all out pushing for this for their driver to go in and expose himself of any wrong doing.
it doesn't look like he has a choice!
https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/27/off ... collision/
The team submitted a petition for a review on Friday. The two drivers and representatives of their teams have been summoned to appear before the stewards via a video link at 4pm Central European Summer Time on Thursday, ahead of the Hungarian Grand Prix weekend.
Then I really hope Ham does not admit to more fault. He has raised the hand before and gotten burned for it, I can’t remember the race. Let’s hope for the best!

Edit: more fault that what the stewards deemed he was “guilty” for. It was a racing incident after all
It is Verstappen who lies in more danger. The "new evidence" I reckon, is the missing account from Verstappen. It's definitely worth a review with Max's side of the story. LH has already given his pretty much, and has a lot of time to "think on the same script."
Horner is a smart man so he will have instructed Max what to tell the Stewards. But lies can back-fire. We will see.
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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:49 pm
rickybobbyf1 wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:12 am
dans79 wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:09 am


it doesn't look like he has a choice!
https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/27/off ... collision/
Then I really hope Ham does not admit to more fault. He has raised the hand before and gotten burned for it, I can’t remember the race. Let’s hope for the best!

Edit: more fault that what the stewards deemed he was “guilty” for. It was a racing incident after all
It is Verstappen who lies in more danger. The "new evidence" I reckon, is the missing account from Verstappen. It's definitely worth a review with Max's side of the story. LH has already given his pretty much, and has a lot of time to "think on the same script."
Horner is a smart man so he will have instructed Max what to tell the Stewards. But lies can back-fire. We will see.
If they are smart, Mercedes will counter anything from Verstappen with the Stroll incident and quote verbatim from Verstappen and Horner's comments following it which indicate Verstappen was righteous in his actions there. That would seem like something of a checkmate.

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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Big Tea wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:04 pm
Phil wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:17 pm
I would love if if Verstappen walks away after this hearing with some penalty points of his own and a grid penalty. Would teach the teams & specifically RedBull some lessons with their own medicine.
I would feel quite sorry for him. Its not he that has been performing. Some slap for the management maybe, like costs?
Max isn't interested in the appeal. He just wants to get back on track and drive. The appeal is all Marko/Horner hoping to get a retroactive DSQ or race ban.

Sadly, I think the team has talked itself in to a hole and now has to go through the process because they can't back out.
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SiLo
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:45 pm
SiLo wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:23 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:22 pm
The cracked rim would have been changed at the safety car more likley. Mediums would be instantly swapped for hards that the main rival is out they wouldn't worry about track position any more.
In my theoretical scenario there wouldnt have been a safety car.
How do you mean? Yout scenario is assuming that Max stays out of the barrier?

It seems the tyre deflation wasnt sudden. Mercedes never said how they detected it, but it seems it was either a slow leak or a visible crack that was still holding. If the former, they would have a forced pitstop. If the latter it could be a sudden blow out of the rear, a slide of the track and a slow limp back to the pits. Anywhere from 10 seconds to a minute depending.. Doesn't have to be a DNF imo.
Yes I assumed Max didn't crash so there would be no stoppage.
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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I don't see on what grounds they can push for a harsher penalty. FIA have declared Hamilton predominantly at fault and punished him accordingly. Realistically there is no way they can spin it to make him wholly at fault.

Other than that, 51g, millions in damages and inappropriate celebration do not constitute a basis for harsher penalties.