2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Phil
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Joined: 25 Sep 2012, 16:22

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Bottas really made his own luck somewhat, but I still think he is being judged too harshly. He's been right on it at Imola in free practice. In QF, he was compromised somewhat by having to do a second run on mediums in Q2 while Hamilton (and Verstappen) could prepare optimally for Q3 with a test-run on the softs.

In the crash with Russel, the issue was largely down to the layout of the track and the dry line. I wouldn't expect Bottas having to concede that line any more than he already did - and at those speeds and with a corner, you don't want to make sharp turns while two wheels are potentially outside that dry line. That could have been easily him losing his car in making room for Russel as it was for Russel reacting slightly more to necessary and getting on the wet patch himself. Overall, a very unfortunate racing incident with neither really to blame, just as unfortunate as Hamilton being held up by cars to be lapped and having to leave that dry line himself on slick tires into a braking zone. During those laps, any car leaving that dry line, especially in corners and braking zone was a big risk for everyone and I for one am surprised there weren't more collisions.

Also in regards to Bottas pace during the race - one shouldn't forget that Bottas had less of a chance at passing cars prior to his crash because DRS was mostly disabled and again, there was that big risk of what might happen when leaving the ideal line. I'm fairly confident there were less overtakes in the first half of the race vs the second half when the track was mostly dried out.

Last point - and the real reason why I am posting this here and not the race thread; Anyone else find Russel not being that likeable? I didn't really appreciate him going to Bottas for a fight after such a heavy high speed collision. I also started watching Drive to Survive recently (up to season 3 / episode 4 or something) and there was this episode, I think in season 2 (episode 9 I think) where he doesn't come across that well, when criticizing his own team and car. No matter how skilled Russel may be, he is still a rookie and is one of only 20 drivers to be fortunate enough to drive F1. The mentality of "I deserve more than to be driving at the back of the grid" IMO is misplaced and I would prefer to have a driver who stands behind his team and tries to help them improve, rather than acting like the spoiled talent who should be in a Mercedes seat.

Just my 2 cents.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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nacho
nacho
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Joined: 04 Sep 2009, 08:38

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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El Scorchio wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 11:08
Look at how Bottas was stuck behind Stroll, whereas Hamilton scythed through the field from ninth.
Hamilton is better at overtaking, but one thing is that the track was dry and DRS was available when Hamilton passed those people. Bottas not only had bad performance and problems getting heat into tires he had no DRS and there was the single dry line situation going on.

Mercedes has seemed to be much worse compared to Red Bull when behind other cars.

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El Scorchio
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Joined: 29 Jul 2019, 12:41

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Phil wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 11:45
Bottas really made his own luck somewhat, but I still think he is being judged too harshly. He's been right on it at Imola in free practice. In QF, he was compromised somewhat by having to do a second run on mediums in Q2 while Hamilton (and Verstappen) could prepare optimally for Q3 with a test-run on the softs.

In the crash with Russel, the issue was largely down to the layout of the track and the dry line. I wouldn't expect Bottas having to concede that line any more than he already did - and at those speeds and with a corner, you don't want to make sharp turns while two wheels are potentially outside that dry line. That could have been easily him losing his car in making room for Russel as it was for Russel reacting slightly more to necessary and getting on the wet patch himself. Overall, a very unfortunate racing incident with neither really to blame, just as unfortunate as Hamilton being held up by cars to be lapped and having to leave that dry line himself on slick tires into a braking zone. During those laps, any car leaving that dry line, especially in corners and braking zone was a big risk for everyone and I for one am surprised there weren't more collisions.

Also in regards to Bottas pace during the race - one shouldn't forget that Bottas had less of a chance at passing cars prior to his crash because DRS was mostly disabled and again, there was that big risk of what might happen when leaving the ideal line. I'm fairly confident there were less overtakes in the first half of the race vs the second half when the track was mostly dried out.

Last point - and the real reason why I am posting this here and not the race thread; Anyone else find Russel not being that likeable? I didn't really appreciate him going to Bottas for a fight after such a heavy high speed collision. I also started watching Drive to Survive recently (up to season 3 / episode 4 or something) and there was this episode, I think in season 2 (episode 9 I think) where he doesn't come across that well, when criticizing his own team and car. No matter how skilled Russel may be, he is still a rookie and is one of only 20 drivers to be fortunate enough to drive F1. The mentality of "I deserve more than to be driving at the back of the grid" IMO is misplaced and I would prefer to have a driver who stands behind his team and tries to help them improve, rather than acting like the spoiled talent who should be in a Mercedes seat.

Just my 2 cents.
I saw the Hamilton slide into the barrier coming a mile off when he went offline going into the turn. Russell did him absolutely no favours with where he put his car, but Hamilton should have had more patience in that moment. A very poor and very rare lapse, but spectacularly made up for afterwards.

Was Bottas DRS not working? That would explain a lot.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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nacho wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 11:47
El Scorchio wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 11:08
Look at how Bottas was stuck behind Stroll, whereas Hamilton scythed through the field from ninth.
Hamilton is better at overtaking, but one thing is that the track was dry and DRS was available when Hamilton passed those people. Bottas not only had bad performance and problems getting heat into tires he had no DRS and there was the single dry line situation going on.

Mercedes has seemed to be much worse compared to Red Bull when behind other cars.
Fair point.

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Juzh
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Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 08:45

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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nacho wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 11:47
El Scorchio wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 11:08
Look at how Bottas was stuck behind Stroll, whereas Hamilton scythed through the field from ninth.
Mercedes has seemed to be much worse compared to Red Bull when behind other cars.
You're basing this on what exactly? Perez needed 5 DRS attacks against Vettel to finally get passed. One of these included a trip over sasuage kerbs. He then caught Alonso at 1.3 seconds per lap but wasn't able to pass him until the end of the race. So how's red bull "much" better than mercedes in traffic?

DarthPlagueisTheVise
DarthPlagueisTheVise
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Joined: 21 Sep 2020, 14:10

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Phil wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 11:45
Bottas really made his own luck somewhat, but I still think he is being judged too harshly. He's been right on it at Imola in free practice. In QF, he was compromised somewhat by having to do a second run on mediums in Q2 while Hamilton (and Verstappen) could prepare optimally for Q3 with a test-run on the softs.

In the crash with Russel, the issue was largely down to the layout of the track and the dry line. I wouldn't expect Bottas having to concede that line any more than he already did - and at those speeds and with a corner, you don't want to make sharp turns while two wheels are potentially outside that dry line. That could have been easily him losing his car in making room for Russel as it was for Russel reacting slightly more to necessary and getting on the wet patch himself. Overall, a very unfortunate racing incident with neither really to blame, just as unfortunate as Hamilton being held up by cars to be lapped and having to leave that dry line himself on slick tires into a braking zone. During those laps, any car leaving that dry line, especially in corners and braking zone was a big risk for everyone and I for one am surprised there weren't more collisions.

Also in regards to Bottas pace during the race - one shouldn't forget that Bottas had less of a chance at passing cars prior to his crash because DRS was mostly disabled and again, there was that big risk of what might happen when leaving the ideal line. I'm fairly confident there were less overtakes in the first half of the race vs the second half when the track was mostly dried out.

Last point - and the real reason why I am posting this here and not the race thread; Anyone else find Russel not being that likeable? I didn't really appreciate him going to Bottas for a fight after such a heavy high speed collision. I also started watching Drive to Survive recently (up to season 3 / episode 4 or something) and there was this episode, I think in season 2 (episode 9 I think) where he doesn't come across that well, when criticizing his own team and car. No matter how skilled Russel may be, he is still a rookie and is one of only 20 drivers to be fortunate enough to drive F1. The mentality of "I deserve more than to be driving at the back of the grid" IMO is misplaced and I would prefer to have a driver who stands behind his team and tries to help them improve, rather than acting like the spoiled talent who should be in a Mercedes seat.

Just my 2 cents.
Totally agreed
Technical Noob

Marty_Y
Marty_Y
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Joined: 31 Mar 2021, 23:37

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Great recovery from Lewis, I think that's the first time I've seen a F1 driver need to use reverse gear and still finish second lol.

Apart from the cost of rebuilding Bottas's car I'm guessing he will need a new gearbox and possibly a new PU which will lead to a grid penalty, so that crash could end up being disastrous for Mercedes constructors championship chances.

Edit just seen photos in the W12 thread, maybe the rear end wasn't damaged as badly as I thought so maybe the gearbox and PU are ok.

Jolle
Jolle
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Marty_Y wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 13:35
Great recovery from Lewis, I think that's the first time I've seen a F1 driver need to use reverse gear and still finish second lol.

Apart from the cost of rebuilding Bottas's car I'm guessing he will need a new gearbox and possibly a new PU which will lead to a grid penalty, so that crash could end up being disastrous for Mercedes constructors championship chances.

Edit just seen photos in the W12 thread, maybe the rear end wasn't damaged as badly as I thought so maybe the gearbox and PU are ok.
If you don’t finish the race, you can fit a new GB without a penalty.

Marty_Y
Marty_Y
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Joined: 31 Mar 2021, 23:37

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Jolle wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 15:26
Marty_Y wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 13:35
Great recovery from Lewis, I think that's the first time I've seen a F1 driver need to use reverse gear and still finish second lol.

Apart from the cost of rebuilding Bottas's car I'm guessing he will need a new gearbox and possibly a new PU which will lead to a grid penalty, so that crash could end up being disastrous for Mercedes constructors championship chances.

Edit just seen photos in the W12 thread, maybe the rear end wasn't damaged as badly as I thought so maybe the gearbox and PU are ok.
If you don’t finish the race, you can fit a new GB without a penalty.

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that.

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dans79
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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197 104 103 7

djones
djones
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Joined: 17 Mar 2005, 15:01

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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It always amazes me how professional Lewis is. There are multiple times over the past few years where my anger would have got the better of me (on the radio) but he keeps it cool.

I would have been really mad that George didn't make it easy to get past, despite him essentially being a Mercedes driver.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 15:56
"So sorry guys."

Bang. No histrionics. No shouting and blaming anyone else. Hand up, my bad, sorry.

And then got the car back to 2nd place so no points lost. Yes, fortunate with the red flag, etc., etc., but still had to turn that good fortune in to points.

It was a shame about the off because it was possible that we'd have had a Lewis / Max battle for the lead in the closing laps.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

SmallSoldier
SmallSoldier
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Just_a_fan wrote:
dans79 wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 15:56
"So sorry guys."

Bang. No histrionics. No shouting and blaming anyone else. Hand up, my bad, sorry.

And then got the car back to 2nd place so no points lost. Yes, fortunate with the red flag, etc., etc., but still had to turn that good fortune in to points.

It was a shame about the off because it was possible that we'd have had a Lewis / Max battle for the lead in the closing laps.
That’s the highlight for him, not only how composed he was, but also that even when he realized that he was going to be one lap behind (or more) he didn’t gave up and tried to get back on the race... It would have been easy for him to just keep the car beached and give up


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SiLo
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Joined: 25 Jul 2010, 19:09

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Lewis knows he is in a proper title fight this year and I think we are going to see his best year yet for performances.
Felipe Baby!

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NathanOlder
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Location: Kent

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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holeindalip wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 05:07
dans79 wrote:
18 Apr 2021, 18:39
zibby43 wrote:
18 Apr 2021, 18:29


Toto just told Sky he believes Merc are quicker in race trim now.
Lewis definitely looked faster on warn inters even with damage. I'm unsure how much faster he was on the mediums, as max was in heavy traffic right after the pit stop, and then Lewis had his off.

Honestly, I think if Lewis hadn't had the off they would be tied on points as I don't think Lewis would have scored fastest lap because of the drs benefit he got from Lando.
I’ll have to rewatch again but I thought ham set the fastest lap the lap after he passed lando and then cruised to the end...there’s no way he set the fastest lap in dirty air behind lando..
He set it on the lap he passed Lando, so he was only behind Lando from the start line to the braking zone of Turn 1. So Lewis had DRS and a tow. Then Lando defended the inside so Lewis stayed on the racing line in to turn 1. Being behind Lando meant he was able to take the fastest lap.
GoLandoGo
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King George has arrived.

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