2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Juzh
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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bonjon1979 wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:36 pm
Not really. Hamilton makes up so much on the final straight because he’s able to get on the power earlier in the corner and Carrie’s that speed with him
Not really. On just about every full throttle section hamilton is faster even at points when any such advantages should start to vein off. Verstappen simply carries more speed trough those last few corners (its there in the numbers) and then loses it down the straight because of combination of drag and/or engine performance. Exiting T10 for example Verstappen is even gaining on straight very early on (better exit) but still ends up losing this after a few seconds of full throttle.

If anything the opposite is true about tyres. Hamilton makes up majority of his advantage in first half of the lap, around 0.38s up to T10, then till the end of the lap makes up only additional 0.05s, and all of this and more is made up on full throttle sections. So who's to say Verstappen's tyres didn't hold up better?

But actually I personally don't believe in this tyre nonsense on a single qualifying lap. Only in Barcelona it is perhaps feasible to save a bit early on to have some in reserve for final sector, but In Qatar we haven't heard any chatter about tyres falling off on a single lap, let alone saving them in S1/S2. Mercedes was just the better car in the end, tyres playing a role or not.

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dans79
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Juzh wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:40 pm
If anything the opposite is true about tyres. Hamilton makes up majority of his advantage in first half of the lap, around 0.38s up to T10, then till the end of the lap makes up only additional 0.05s, and all of this and more is made up on full throttle sections. So who's to say Verstappen's tyres didn't hold up better?
I think some of this is because Max was more aggressive on the exit curbs in the second half of the lap than Lewis.

For example this is the exit curbs of turn 14 on lap 1. I think this is where Max actually damaged his front wing!
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Last edited by dans79 on Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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aral
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Please stop destroying the threads by reverting all to a verstappen v hamilton argument. This thread is about the RBR team

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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aral wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:24 pm
Please stop destroying the threads by reverting all to a verstappen v hamilton argument. This thread is about the RBR team
There's a lot race-specific stuff in here too which is off topic. Indeed, much of the V vs H stuff is about race performance. It should all be deleted or moved to the race thread.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Juzh wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:27 am
HungarianRacer wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:27 pm
As for T1 & 2, HAM choose to be very conservative on the brakes after the pair of snaps he had in this section on his prior attempt, nevertheless, his min. speed was actually still a colossal 8 km/h higher than VER's in T1...
T1 is a weird corner. 8 kmh higher apex speed resulted in almost no advantage gained for Hamilton:
The band of dots son the outside of the "track" show who was faster at that portion of track. Contrary to some views this is saying the RedBull was faster on turn six exit and HAM made up most of that gap on corner entry.
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etusch
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I saw this in a Facebook group. So it may be lesser trusthworty. But at the end it is expected to use pu at highest modes

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bigblue
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Also mentioned at https://www.grandprix.com/news/red-bull ... ocket.html, without description of who said it to who. One of these two sources may be copying the other, who may be conjecturing completely. But for what it's worth, I thought I'd mention it.

I'm sure Honda will have taken a look to see what they can do, if they really have to, but everyone had been supposing the gain would be small even on a new engine. Who knows ...

For now I don't believe it will happen, these stories are too vague ! :-)

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adrianjordan
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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My understanding is that Merc are suffering worse drop off in performance than Honda, so it might not offer Max as much of an advantage. Besides, what would be to stop Merc doing exactly the same with Lewis?
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adrianjordan
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:30 pm
aral wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:24 pm
Please stop destroying the threads by reverting all to a verstappen v hamilton argument. This thread is about the RBR team
There's a lot race-specific stuff in here too which is off topic. Indeed, much of the V vs H stuff is about race performance. It should all be deleted or moved to the race thread.
You should see the McLaren Team thread on a race weekend. You can wade through 10+ pages of race specific talk some weekends.
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etusch
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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bigblue wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:30 pm
Also mentioned at https://www.grandprix.com/news/red-bull ... ocket.html, without description of who said it to who. One of these two sources may be copying the other, who may be conjecturing completely. But for what it's worth, I thought I'd mention it.

I'm sure Honda will have taken a look to see what they can do, if they really have to, but everyone had been supposing the gain would be small even on a new engine. Who knows ...

For now I don't believe it will happen, these stories are too vague ! :-)
Even if these news is true or not, it is for sure they do what they can. There is news that says redbull and honda talks about what they can do. So this is proof that they will do something. When you build your engine for 8 races there is always a margin for more power for only two.
I want to give 2005 renault and mclaren rivalry for this. At that times 4 race per engine and mclaren were super fast at that season. But at last race Renault installed new engine and they were way faster than mclarens.

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dans79
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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bigblue wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:30 pm
Also mentioned at https://www.grandprix.com/news/red-bull ... ocket.html, without description of who said it to who. One of these two sources may be copying the other, who may be conjecturing completely. But for what it's worth, I thought I'd mention it.

I'm sure Honda will have taken a look to see what they can do, if they really have to, but everyone had been supposing the gain would be small even on a new engine. Who knows ...

For now I don't believe it will happen, these stories are too vague ! :-)
Personally i think this is all just conjecture.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut-ma ... -complete/
Quopte from Marko published on the 26th!
Asked by Sky if another engine change would happen at Red Bull, Marko replied, quoted by Motorsport-Total.com: “No, we are not confronted with such fluctuations from Honda’s point of view. Our engines are stable.

“The fluctuation range is within half a percent and not like Mercedes, where it accounts for almost two per cent.”

And then you have this as well.




Not to mention taking an engine penalty at a track where you have no idea how hard it will be to overtake hardly sounds like a good idea!
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BlueCheetah66
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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They would need to have a big improvement in power to take that kind of risk and certainty that they would be level with Mercedes. But if they are able to run the engine really hard they may be able to get to that level. Would be a very tough decision to make

TNTHead
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:27 pm
[quote=bigblue post_id=1015399

And then you have this as well.




Not to mention taking an engine penalty at a track where you have no idea how hard it will be to overtake hardly sounds like a good idea!
kWh? #-o

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dans79
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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TNTHead wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:19 pm
dans79 wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:27 pm
[quote=bigblue post_id=1015399

And then you have this as well.




Not to mention taking an engine penalty at a track where you have no idea how hard it will be to overtake hardly sounds like a good idea!
kWh? #-o
I know I know......

I don't know if that's the person reporting it not knowing what the correct unit is, or Helmut!
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Ryar
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:27 pm
bigblue wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:30 pm
Also mentioned at https://www.grandprix.com/news/red-bull ... ocket.html, without description of who said it to who. One of these two sources may be copying the other, who may be conjecturing completely. But for what it's worth, I thought I'd mention it.

I'm sure Honda will have taken a look to see what they can do, if they really have to, but everyone had been supposing the gain would be small even on a new engine. Who knows ...

For now I don't believe it will happen, these stories are too vague ! :-)
Personally i think this is all just conjecture.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut-ma ... -complete/
Quopte from Marko published on the 26th!
Asked by Sky if another engine change would happen at Red Bull, Marko replied, quoted by Motorsport-Total.com: “No, we are not confronted with such fluctuations from Honda’s point of view. Our engines are stable.

“The fluctuation range is within half a percent and not like Mercedes, where it accounts for almost two per cent.”

And then you have this as well.




Not to mention taking an engine penalty at a track where you have no idea how hard it will be to overtake hardly sounds like a good idea!
You need to decide if Helmut is a good source for you. Because last time when he said Mercedes are scheduled to take Engine penalty for Lewis, you junked him. Now you are quoting him.
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