2021 Mclaren F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
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wogx
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Ok, so no need for new threads yet :)

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adrianjordan
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Traditionally the new team threads get opened when the team launches their new car.
Favourite driver: Lando Norris
Favourite team: McLaren

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wogx
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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New car threads* - yup, that's true. New team threads were opened:
2021 threads - 31 Dec 2020 by @Manoah2u
2020 threads - 30 Dec 2019 by @Manoah2u
2019 threads - 25 Dec 2018 by @Manoah2u
2018 threads - 27,28 Nov, 05 Dec 2017 by @Manoah2u
2017 threads - 05 Dec 2016 by @Manoah2u
2016 threads - 04-06 Dec 2015 by @Manoah2u
2015 threads - 01 Jan 2015 by @Manoah2u

:-" :-" :-"

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Darth-Piekus
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Ok big question. Which engine do you think was the most powerful and most reliable of them all? Is it Mercedes or Honda for you guys? Personally I still say Mercedes considering how Mclaren completed most amount of laps and having the same amount of engines changed as Red Bull. What do you think?

SmallSoldier
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Darth-Piekus wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:10 pm
Ok big question. Which engine do you think was the most powerful and most reliable of them all? Is it Mercedes or Honda for you guys? Personally I still say Mercedes considering how Mclaren completed most amount of laps and having the same amount of engines changed as Red Bull. What do you think?
Most powerful is debatable, in my opinion Mercedes may have had an small edge in that department… From a reliability stand point, I believe Honda was more reliable… The need for engine changes on their side was mostly due to collisions and not necessarily reliability related, while in Mercedes the additional units were driven by reliability improvements or concerns.

Emag
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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The only reason why Mercedes appeared less reliable this year is because they absolutely wrecked Bottas' power units for experimentations which allowed them to find the right balance between risk/reward on Lewis' power units.

Even throughout 2021, Mercedes definitely was the king on both reliability and power. That can change in 2022, especially with Ferrari coming back into the picture, but given the history and track record Mercedes has had in the hybrid era, I would still put my money on them having the better overall package.

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Darth-Piekus
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:39 pm
Darth-Piekus wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:10 pm
Ok big question. Which engine do you think was the most powerful and most reliable of them all? Is it Mercedes or Honda for you guys? Personally I still say Mercedes considering how Mclaren completed most amount of laps and having the same amount of engines changed as Red Bull. What do you think?
Most powerful is debatable, in my opinion Mercedes may have had an small edge in that department… From a reliability stand point, I believe Honda was more reliable… The need for engine changes on their side was mostly due to collisions and not necessarily reliability related, while in Mercedes the additional units were driven by reliability improvements or concerns.
Should we not count Mclaren's performance with the Mercedes Engines? They were the most reliable on their back.

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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Emag wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:00 pm
The only reason why Mercedes appeared less reliable this year is because they absolutely wrecked Bottas' power units for experimentations which allowed them to find the right balance between risk/reward on Lewis' power units.

Even throughout 2021, Mercedes definitely was the king on both reliability and power. That can change in 2022, especially with Ferrari coming back into the picture, but given the history and track record Mercedes has had in the hybrid era, I would still put my money on them having the better overall package.
It’s not just about Bottas, Williams and Aston Martin had to take additional engines, as did McLaren and those weren’t due to Mercedes testing things… Mercedes themselves admitted that they had reliability concerns.

I’m not arguing if it is the better package (which I think it is), but from a purely reliability stand point, Honda was more reliable than Mercedes.

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Darth-Piekus wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:41 pm
SmallSoldier wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:39 pm
Darth-Piekus wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:10 pm
Ok big question. Which engine do you think was the most powerful and most reliable of them all? Is it Mercedes or Honda for you guys? Personally I still say Mercedes considering how Mclaren completed most amount of laps and having the same amount of engines changed as Red Bull. What do you think?
Most powerful is debatable, in my opinion Mercedes may have had an small edge in that department… From a reliability stand point, I believe Honda was more reliable… The need for engine changes on their side was mostly due to collisions and not necessarily reliability related, while in Mercedes the additional units were driven by reliability improvements or concerns.
Should we not count Mclaren's performance with the Mercedes Engines? They were the most reliable on their back.
That isn’t the complete picture though, Mclaren had to introduce an additional engine due to reliability concerns in the last third of the season… While Honda had to introduce additional ones mainly due to the collisions suffered by both VER and PER.

In addition, using the amount of laps completed as a sign of reliability is misleading, since collisions will influence that number and those aren’t related to engine reliability.

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Stu
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Emag wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:00 pm
The only reason why Mercedes appeared less reliable this year is because they absolutely wrecked Bottas' power units for experimentations which allowed them to find the right balance between risk/reward on Lewis' power units.

Even throughout 2021, Mercedes definitely was the king on both reliability and power. That can change in 2022, especially with Ferrari coming back into the picture, but given the history and track record Mercedes has had in the hybrid era, I would still put my money on them having the better overall package.
Mercedes may also have done the same with George Russell, his run of very (very) good qualifying performances seemed to end quite abruptly?

Some of McLaren’s late season drop in performance could also be attributed to them needing to turn down the engines to save costs (particularly once they knew that Ferrari were going to beat them - they became almost anonymous).

You also have the LH only (???), Brazil-spec engine with the ‘reliability upgrade’ very heavy gaskets (+630g) along with a turned-up-to-11 tune, when it was then used for the final two races it didn’t make the big difference that it did in Brazil.
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

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_cerber1
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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:cry:

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djos
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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The wheels are a standard part now aren’t they? So that would make sense.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

ScottR267
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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djos wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:01 pm
The wheels are a standard part now aren’t they? So that would make sense.

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diffuser
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Stu wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:18 am
Emag wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:00 pm
The only reason why Mercedes appeared less reliable this year is because they absolutely wrecked Bottas' power units for experimentations which allowed them to find the right balance between risk/reward on Lewis' power units.

Even throughout 2021, Mercedes definitely was the king on both reliability and power. That can change in 2022, especially with Ferrari coming back into the picture, but given the history and track record Mercedes has had in the hybrid era, I would still put my money on them having the better overall package.
Mercedes may also have done the same with George Russell, his run of very (very) good qualifying performances seemed to end quite abruptly?

Some of McLaren’s late season drop in performance could also be attributed to them needing to turn down the engines to save costs (particularly once they knew that Ferrari were going to beat them - they became almost anonymous).

You also have the LH only (???), Brazil-spec engine with the ‘reliability upgrade’ very heavy gaskets (+630g) along with a turned-up-to-11 tune, when it was then used for the final two races it didn’t make the big difference that it did in Brazil.
Thought Gaskets are replaceable from race to race ...

Is this only between Merc/honda or is Alpine excluded cause they were running a 3 year old PU ?

mwillems
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:22 am
Emag wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:00 pm
The only reason why Mercedes appeared less reliable this year is because they absolutely wrecked Bottas' power units for experimentations which allowed them to find the right balance between risk/reward on Lewis' power units.

Even throughout 2021, Mercedes definitely was the king on both reliability and power. That can change in 2022, especially with Ferrari coming back into the picture, but given the history and track record Mercedes has had in the hybrid era, I would still put my money on them having the better overall package.
It’s not just about Bottas, Williams and Aston Martin had to take additional engines, as did McLaren and those weren’t due to Mercedes testing things… Mercedes themselves admitted that they had reliability concerns.

I’m not arguing if it is the better package (which I think it is), but from a purely reliability stand point, Honda was more reliable than Mercedes.
In the first half of the season that was more true, but Merc later brought a new spec which was more durable then the previous iteration, at least in terms of engine wear which would likely have contributed to reliability.

The Merc also started the season with deployment issues IIRC. So I guess if you look at where they finished at the end of the season, the Merc was the better package, but over the course it was fairly even.
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