Mercedes W12

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hugobos
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Looking at the picture with flow viz, shouldn’t the flow vis be -rubbed-away if the wing were flexing?
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced

djones
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Re: Mercedes W12

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The shape of the marks do not align to any movement of that wing piece.

No matter which way you imagine it bending it will not make that exact shape.

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RZS10
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Only the way i showed in the gif but it's unrealistic ... i was basically implying that with the questions i posed.

crazychrome
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Re: Mercedes W12

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I thought it was odd that Mercedes abruptly stopped using spoon wings in 2019 despite other teams continuing to do so, but now I suspect it's because the spoon curve interferes with the mainplane trick that they are using. Perhaps the mainplane trick is much older than assumed.

seense
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Re: Mercedes W12

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RZS10 wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:56 pm
Would something like this even be feasible from a carbon/material standpoint?
https://i.imgur.com/mVFwkFC.gif
Now this is exactly what I was talking about in the Merc team thread. I produce carbon fiber wings every day. It will be susceptible to fatigue but it's possible with the right fiber orientation and resin. That's why is said that a plastic deformation may have contributed to the failing drs opening test.

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Big Tea
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Re: Mercedes W12

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djones wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:57 pm
The shape of the marks do not align to any movement of that wing piece.

No matter which way you imagine it bending it will not make that exact shape.
The only movement I can see making a witness like that is if the lower end of the wing was unbolted and the panel 'swivelled forwards' to get access to or to adjust something behind the upright, then replaced.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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RZS10
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Re: Mercedes W12

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seense wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:19 pm
RZS10 wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:56 pm
Would something like this even be feasible from a carbon/material standpoint?
https://i.imgur.com/mVFwkFC.gif
Now this is exactly what I was talking about in the Merc team thread. I produce carbon fiber wings every day. It will be susceptible to fatigue but it's possible with the right fiber orientation and resin. That's why is said that a plastic deformation may have contributed to the failing drs opening test.
What about this? viewtopic.php?p=1012887#p1012887

seense
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Re: Mercedes W12

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RZS10 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:40 pm
seense wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:19 pm
RZS10 wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:56 pm
Would something like this even be feasible from a carbon/material standpoint?
https://i.imgur.com/mVFwkFC.gif
Now this is exactly what I was talking about in the Merc team thread. I produce carbon fiber wings every day. It will be susceptible to fatigue but it's possible with the right fiber orientation and resin. That's why is said that a plastic deformation may have contributed to the failing drs opening test.
What about this? viewtopic.php?p=1012887#p1012887
Yes, if that "stringer" is a continious piece of carbon fiber it will be difficult to reach the suggested deflection. Or a very flexible resin has been used with a high strain at failure capacity. Probably still need to replace the parts a lot. I don't know exactly how those parts and connections are constructed.

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hugobos
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Seense thanks for the explanation.

If I enlarge the part in the blue circle it looks like there is a stopper pin , something like a small Phillips screw. Image
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Tzk
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Re: Mercedes W12

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ringo wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:48 am
What it can also be is that these endplates can also hold many wings. As Mercedes say they race with many wings.
That mark could be from another longer, more shallow wing that was fitted in these end plates.
Thought the same. What if they just ran a lower downforce mainplane with these endplates? Seriously, If it would bend that much and the fia would catch the mercs with it, i‘d expect a DSQ which they just can‘t risk.

Jozsusz
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Re: Mercedes W12

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So can someone explain to me what happened with this car? Why is it a rocket suddenly?

nacho
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Does anyone know if the disassemble the wings when changing downforce. With the cost cap it would make sense to have separate endplates and wing parts.

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dans79
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Jozsusz wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:34 pm
So can someone explain to me what happened with this car? Why is it a rocket suddenly?
Imo it's something like this.

in testing, they were handicapped by rear/diffuser df instability because of the rule changes, and they also had issues with the new plenum. Over the first few races they reworked the suspension set-up and ICE/ERS mapping to try and compensate with the issues until fixes could be developed and put in place.

Over the first 4 or 5 races they got the plenum issue resolved and started pushing the PU harder to compensate for the insatiability issues. At silverstone they put the major update in place to fix the instability issues.

As they pushed the ICE harder they noticed the batch problem related to the aloy they make the blocks from. It took several races to get on top of that issue.

Meanwhile they have been slowly increasing the rake of the car, and also managed to get the rear to squat and stall the floor. This is something I think they actually developed for next year and brought forward.

Now the ICE issue is fixed. The drivers have fresh ICE's that don't need to last as long. The aero working as intended, and we have hit a sequence of track that play to Mercs strengths, that's why (imo) they seem to have taken such a big step.
191 103 103 7

SuperCNJ
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Re: Mercedes W12

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hugobos wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:21 pm
Seense thanks for the explanation.

If I enlarge the part in the blue circle it looks like there is a stopper pin , something like a small Phillips screw. https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/up ... edbull.jpg
I can't see a pin that small being able to resist the forces that the wing will be subject to. Besides, if they needed to have a stopper, they could have easily hidden it behind that end-plate so it's not seen.

I personally don't think it's moving wings, if it were to move, surely the scratches should be in the direction of the movement. I think it is probably just a case of parts being re-used or assembled in a different configuration. Sometimes you need to sand down areas to provide a good "key" whether it is for painting or bonding a component.

It looks to me that the "scratches" may just be where another rear wing configuration would have had the wing positioned. As the wing would have masked that area, the area would not have been polished leaving an area that appears scuffed. But this is just my guess. :)

rifrafs2kees
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Different subject here, W12 starts. Could the nonlinear heave spring, which allows the rear to squat as downforce increases impact traction off the line? Anecdotally, the Rbs seam to have better starts. Wondering why.
One theory that comes to mind is that rearward weight transfer associated with starts coupled with a "regressive" spring rate at the break over point might impact traction. Someone school me.
Last edited by rifrafs2kees on Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:23 am, edited 1 time in total.