2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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dans79
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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LM10 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:55 pm
What a race. Hamilton deserved that, no doubt. Sublime drive.

RBR was the better car, Max did a good job as well, but I think that it would have been better to not overtake where he did, but wait a bit and get him on the long straight right after.

As for the T4 limits discussion, I think that Hamilton and Bottas both knew pretty well that they were not allowed to do that, but they did anyway because they knew the only consequence would be a warning which eventually came in the middle of the race. Max started doing the same after his engineer told him that Mercedes were doing it as well.
I’m pretty sure that such points are being talked about in the pre-race briefing. On top of that the limitation was there in qualifying already. There is no chance Mercedes didn’t know it.
See the post immediately above yours.
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LHamilton
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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ispano6 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:59 pm
LM10 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:55 pm
What a race. Hamilton deserved that, no doubt. Sublime drive.

RBR was the better car, Max did a good job as well, but I think that it would have been better to not overtake where he did, but wait a bit and get him on the long straight right after.

As for the T4 limits discussion, I think that Hamilton and Bottas both knew pretty well that they were not allowed to do that, but they did anyway because they knew the only consequence would be a warning which eventually came in the middle of the race. Max started doing the same after his engineer told him that Mercedes were doing it as well.
I’m pretty sure that such points are being talked about in the pre-race briefing. On top of that the limitation was there in qualifying already. There is no chance Mercedes didn’t know it.
It's hypocritical for Mercedes to call it out when you're passed but you've gained a lasting advantage throughout the race.
No it's not. One was done before the warning and without any other cars nearby. The other one was done after the warning and in an overtaking maneuver. If you can't put these things into context then I don't know what to say.

DChemTech
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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LHamilton wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:06 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:59 pm
LM10 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:55 pm
What a race. Hamilton deserved that, no doubt. Sublime drive.

RBR was the better car, Max did a good job as well, but I think that it would have been better to not overtake where he did, but wait a bit and get him on the long straight right after.

As for the T4 limits discussion, I think that Hamilton and Bottas both knew pretty well that they were not allowed to do that, but they did anyway because they knew the only consequence would be a warning which eventually came in the middle of the race. Max started doing the same after his engineer told him that Mercedes were doing it as well.
I’m pretty sure that such points are being talked about in the pre-race briefing. On top of that the limitation was there in qualifying already. There is no chance Mercedes didn’t know it.
It's hypocritical for Mercedes to call it out when you're passed but you've gained a lasting advantage throughout the race.
No it's not. One was done before the warning and without any other cars nearby. The other one was done after the warning and in an overtaking maneuver. If you can't put these things into context then I don't know what to say.
Gaining an advantage should just never be ok. If you go outside the track and gain am advantage, there should be consequences. It should not matter which turn, and it should not matter whether the closest car is right next to you, 5s behind, or on mars. It does now, and that is a problem.

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dans79
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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DChemTech wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:15 pm
LHamilton wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:06 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:59 pm


It's hypocritical for Mercedes to call it out when you're passed but you've gained a lasting advantage throughout the race.
No it's not. One was done before the warning and without any other cars nearby. The other one was done after the warning and in an overtaking maneuver. If you can't put these things into context then I don't know what to say.
Gaining an advantage should just never be ok. If you go outside the track and gain am advantage, there should be consequences. It should not matter which turn, and it should not matter whether the closest car is right next to you, 5s behind, or on mars. It does now, and that is a problem.
The problem with that is that the drivers were told as has been shown above by a few people that track limits would not be enforced in turn 4 during the race. Then at some point during the race the FIA decided they would enforce track limits.
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DChemTech
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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dans79 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:17 pm
DChemTech wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:15 pm
LHamilton wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:06 pm


No it's not. One was done before the warning and without any other cars nearby. The other one was done after the warning and in an overtaking maneuver. If you can't put these things into context then I don't know what to say.
Gaining an advantage should just never be ok. If you go outside the track and gain am advantage, there should be consequences. It should not matter which turn, and it should not matter whether the closest car is right next to you, 5s behind, or on mars. It does now, and that is a problem.
The problem with that is that the drivers were told as has been shown above by a few people that track limits would not be enforced in turn 4 during the race. Then at some point during the race it decided they would enforce track limits.
Well, yes, there are three problems there, too: 1) that it was apparently ok to color outside of the lines in t4, 2) unless in the context of overtaking (which is inconsistent; a time gain is an advantage just as well), and 3) that they changed their mind on the fly.

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ispano6
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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LHamilton wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:06 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:59 pm
LM10 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:55 pm
What a race. Hamilton deserved that, no doubt. Sublime drive.

RBR was the better car, Max did a good job as well, but I think that it would have been better to not overtake where he did, but wait a bit and get him on the long straight right after.

As for the T4 limits discussion, I think that Hamilton and Bottas both knew pretty well that they were not allowed to do that, but they did anyway because they knew the only consequence would be a warning which eventually came in the middle of the race. Max started doing the same after his engineer told him that Mercedes were doing it as well.
I’m pretty sure that such points are being talked about in the pre-race briefing. On top of that the limitation was there in qualifying already. There is no chance Mercedes didn’t know it.
It's hypocritical for Mercedes to call it out when you're passed but you've gained a lasting advantage throughout the race.
No it's not. One was done before the warning and without any other cars nearby. The other one was done after the warning and in an overtaking maneuver. If you can't put these things into context then I don't know what to say.
Yeah yeah. Admit to the crime, do the time. Besides, if you look at Max's pass he was clearly ahead of Hamilton before leaving the track. Red Bull could have argued that Hamilton didn't leave him any room. In any case, Hamilton fans got their egos lifted, Red Bull Honda fans had a pole-to-win robbed. I'm sure it will fuel Max's determination, and not make him lose confidence like some people here are saying.

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dans79
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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DChemTech wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:21 pm
dans79 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:17 pm
DChemTech wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:15 pm


Gaining an advantage should just never be ok. If you go outside the track and gain am advantage, there should be consequences. It should not matter which turn, and it should not matter whether the closest car is right next to you, 5s behind, or on mars. It does now, and that is a problem.
The problem with that is that the drivers were told as has been shown above by a few people that track limits would not be enforced in turn 4 during the race. Then at some point during the race it decided they would enforce track limits.
Well, yes, there are three problems there, too: 1) that it was apparently ok to color outside of the lines in t4, 2) unless in the context of overtaking (which is inconsistent; a time gain is an advantage just as well), and 3) that they changed their mind on the fly.
The only thing the FIA has ever been consistent with, is their inconsistency.
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NathanOlder
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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cooken wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:21 pm
FrukostScones wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:00 pm
ZARCO!
Please don't put MotoGP spoilers in an F1 race thread. Not cool.
Totally agree. this has pissed me right off. Thanks...... not!
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MKlaus
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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when max was told about lewis and bottas crossing t4 limits, he said, "that is illegal" and that's when stewards issued warning. it's ironic that he ended up breaching it in an overtaking maneuver. no overtaking can be completed off track, regardless of the t4 situation.
good nail biting racing. max will get his chance to reverse it. but no complaints for such a thrilling racing, regardless of who won. honestly i thought max had this race, but the old champ shows how to do it.

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dans79
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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ispano6 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:22 pm
LHamilton wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:06 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:59 pm


It's hypocritical for Mercedes to call it out when you're passed but you've gained a lasting advantage throughout the race.
No it's not. One was done before the warning and without any other cars nearby. The other one was done after the warning and in an overtaking maneuver. If you can't put these things into context then I don't know what to say.
Besides, if you look at Max's pass he was clearly ahead of Hamilton before leaving the track.
Again, as several of us have mentioned it doesn't matter if you are in front when you leave the track! If you are overlap ed when you go into the turn, then you have to stay on the track even if you are clearly in front at the time you exit the turn.
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Restomaniac
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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DChemTech wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:21 pm
dans79 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:17 pm
DChemTech wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:15 pm


Gaining an advantage should just never be ok. If you go outside the track and gain am advantage, there should be consequences. It should not matter which turn, and it should not matter whether the closest car is right next to you, 5s behind, or on mars. It does now, and that is a problem.
The problem with that is that the drivers were told as has been shown above by a few people that track limits would not be enforced in turn 4 during the race. Then at some point during the race it decided they would enforce track limits.
Well, yes, there are three problems there, too: 1) that it was apparently ok to color outside of the lines in t4, 2) unless in the context of overtaking (which is inconsistent; a time gain is an advantage just as well), and 3) that they changed their mind on the fly.
TBF if I’m Verstappen I’m asking RedBull what the hell they are playing at. It’s clear Mercedes knew the score and passed the info on. Now either RedBull didn’t know, understand or just didn’t bother to tell him.

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dans79
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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MKlaus wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:23 pm
when max was told about lewis and bottas crossing t4 limits, he said, "that is illegal" and that's when stewards issued warning.
The thing is, as Charles and other members of the patek said the drivers were told during the meeting that the track limits would not be enforced at turn 4. Thus it wasn't illegal until some point during the race when the FIA decided it was should be.
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Juzh
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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My 2 cents about the race:

Undesired result, but the race was very good and suspense towards the end was epic, even if helped by Verstappen's car problems. Best race in ages, forget Turkey and time deltas of +-3 seconds depending if you got tires in window or not, this was a real race today. More like this please.

Honda PU is at best level with Mercedes, probably still slightly behind on pure power. It does seem better than ferrari and renault.

Alonso looked good in that dog alpine, but we cant know when his brake problems started. He was battling mclarens at one point, then sunk like a stone.

Ferrari a mixed bag. Better than last year of course, but still got beaten by mclaren and even Perez from back of the grid.

Ricciardo has got his work cut out for him with Norris. +20s at the end of the race.

Perez's recovery was good but looking at pace alone he couldn't match Verstappen at all. For example his first full lap after his last stop for mediums was 1.2s slower than what Verstappen managed just a lap later on hard tires. He had some good laps here and there but overall I'd say he was some 0.5s slower per lap. I'd have to do some more digging but that's the impression I got from laps he ran in clean air.

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dans79
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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Restomaniac wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:27 pm
DChemTech wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:21 pm
dans79 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:17 pm


The problem with that is that the drivers were told as has been shown above by a few people that track limits would not be enforced in turn 4 during the race. Then at some point during the race it decided they would enforce track limits.
Well, yes, there are three problems there, too: 1) that it was apparently ok to color outside of the lines in t4, 2) unless in the context of overtaking (which is inconsistent; a time gain is an advantage just as well), and 3) that they changed their mind on the fly.
TBF if I’m Verstappen I’m asking RedBull what the hell they are playing at. It’s clear Mercedes knew the score and passed the info on. Now either RedBull didn’t know, understand or just didn’t bother to tell him.
Charles said it was anounced during the drivers meeting, so Max should of had first hand knowledge of what was and wasn't illegal.
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Restomaniac
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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dans79 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:35 pm
Restomaniac wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:27 pm
DChemTech wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:21 pm


Well, yes, there are three problems there, too: 1) that it was apparently ok to color outside of the lines in t4, 2) unless in the context of overtaking (which is inconsistent; a time gain is an advantage just as well), and 3) that they changed their mind on the fly.
TBF if I’m Verstappen I’m asking RedBull what the hell they are playing at. It’s clear Mercedes knew the score and passed the info on. Now either RedBull didn’t know, understand or just didn’t bother to tell him.
Charles said it was anounced during the drivers meeting, so Max should of had first hand knowledge of what was and wasn't illegal.
Ah I didn’t know that. In that case it’s on him then.