2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 - 18

[dans79]

So what?

The driver of the best/fastest car probably did win the title in 1997, 1999, 2003, 2010 and 2012. That didn’t stop those seasons from being classics.

Do you remember watching races in 1997 and 1999?

2001 is the first season I watched live. I watched 1997 and 1999 in full through some dodgy websites.

Anyway, that’s not really relevant to the point.

your profile says you're 25, so I find it hard to believe you have any detailed memories of 2001.
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=25163

[Kingshark]

Do you remember watching races in 1997 and 1999?

2001 is the first season I watched live. I watched 1997 and 1999 in full through some dodgy websites.

Anyway, that’s not really relevant to the point.

your profile says you're 25, so I find it hard to believe you have any detailed memories of 2001.
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=25163

The first race I ever watched involved a red car fighting a white car. It was late 2001. The first corner was a right-left sequence.

In hindsight, it could have been either USA or Monza 2001.

The first season I followed in detail (keeping track of points and everything) was 2003.

[the EDGE]

2001 is the first season I watched live. I watched 1997 and 1999 in full through some dodgy websites.

Anyway, that’s not really relevant to the point.

your profile says you're 25, so I find it hard to believe you have any detailed memories of 2001.
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=25163

The first race I ever watched involved a red car fighting a white car. It was late 2001. The first corner was a right-left sequence.

In hindsight, it could have been either USA or Monza 2001.

The first season I followed in detail (keeping track of points and everything) was 2003.

I used to love F1 as a small child in the mid 80s, I would look forward to watching after Sunday lunch (nearly always at my Nan’s house) whilst the Grown-ups chatted. Sadly I remember very little of it but must have seen some awesome F1 history in my time

From around age 11 I was always busy on Sunday with either cadets or late working and pretty much stopped watching for many years, although would tune-in on occasion

I changed my job in 2007 and have fortunately, barley worked a weekend since. I can’t remember missing a race since

[NathanOlder]

My main problem with winners in Formula 1 is when I perceive them to win because of their car rather than their ability.

Vettel was never the best driver on the grid, so watching him win 4 consecutive titles was very annoying.

Verstappen has been the best driver on the grid since the beginning of 2019, so watching Hamilton win two titles when Verstappen is performing better in a vastly inferior car is equally annoying.

Before someone gets their panties in a twist over what I just wrote, this is all MY opinion.

Why in gods name do you watch Formula 1 then ? Nascar/Indycar/FormulaE will be much better for you.

[GOAT]

Only two people figured it out.

Why would I leave after thirteen years as user? And even more as a reader?
Don't be silly now....

Obviously everybody has the right to experience their own mental breakdown in privacy, it’s certainly not a joke.

I am glad you’re doing ok and I wish you a strong recovery bro.

[Phil]

Can I just ask, what those that support HAM think about the stewards saying he was predominantly to blame? Why do you think this is?

I’ll bite. I think the only reason they worded their decision that way, was to give them the power to equalize the outcome of that incident that saw one competitor completely out in a nasty shunt and the other left to continue with little to zero damage. Had both cars survived the minor contact and continued in their respective or reversed positions, it would have been deemed a “no action necessary” racing incident.

Because there was a shunt, they felt morally obliged to punish one, but used the second least penalty they could impose (a 10s time penalty). That IMO doesnt sit right with the wording that Hamilton was supposedly predominantly to blame. If that were the case, they would have thrown the rule book at him, with something more severe on the table from stop-and-go to disqualification.

All IMO and just my two cents.

[maxxer]

Can I just ask, what those that support HAM think about the stewards saying he was predominantly to blame? Why do you think this is?

I’ll bite. I think the only reason they worded their decision that way, was to give them the power to equalize the outcome of that incident that saw one competitor completely out in a nasty shunt and the other left to continue with little to zero damage. Had both cars survived the minor contact and continued in their respective or reversed positions, it would have been deemed a “no action necessary” racing incident.

Because there was a shunt, they felt morally obliged to punish one, but used the second least penalty they could impose (a 10s time penalty). That IMO doesnt sit right with the wording that Hamilton was supposedly predominantly to blame. If that were the case, they would have thrown the rule book at him, with something more severe on the table from stop-and-go to disqualification.

All IMO and just my two cents.

Sorry but look at the race what Verstappen was doing before I am no fanboy at all i want to see racing on the edge

[Mogster]

Yes. Max was already punished by being in the fence. Hamilton was still circulating. If Max’s wheel hadn’t collapsed I doubt any penalties would have been handed out. There was no investigation about the earlier wheel banging.

[Just_a_fan]

Can I just ask, what those that support HAM think about the stewards saying he was predominantly to blame? Why do you think this is?

I’ll bite. I think the only reason they worded their decision that way, was to give them the power to equalize the outcome of that incident that saw one competitor completely out in a nasty shunt and the other left to continue with little to zero damage. Had both cars survived the minor contact and continued in their respective or reversed positions, it would have been deemed a “no action necessary” racing incident.

Because there was a shunt, they felt morally obliged to punish one, but used the second least penalty they could impose (a 10s time penalty). That IMO doesnt sit right with the wording that Hamilton was supposedly predominantly to blame. If that were the case, they would have thrown the rule book at him, with something more severe on the table from stop-and-go to disqualification.

All IMO and just my two cents.

When Kvyatt rolled Stroll, he got a 10s penalty and was considered to be "wholly to blame". So the 10s penalty was either harsh for someone "predominantly to blame" or lenient for someone "wholly to blame". But this is F1 stewarding we are talking about, so consistency of approach isn't a strong point.

I agree with Phil's idea about about the shunt apply pressure on the stewards, and think that had there not been a big shunt in to the barriers, it would have been a "first lap racing incident".

[Just_a_fan]

Yes. Max was already punished by being in the fence. Hamilton was still circulating. If Max’s wheel hadn’t collapsed I doubt any penalties would have been handed out. There was no investigation about the earlier wheel banging.

Nor was there an investigation of the turn 1 running wide fully off track to take first around the outside.

[ispano6]

So what?

The driver of the best/fastest car probably did win the title in 1997, 1999, 2003, 2010 and 2012. That didn’t stop those seasons from being classics.

2001 is the first season I watched live. I watched 1997 and 1999 in full through some dodgy websites.

Anyway, that’s not really relevant to the point.

Agreed, this season is going to be one that will be talked about for a long time. It's remiscent of the golden age of F1 86-92, which is worth watching too. F1 is exciting to watch thanks to Max, RedBull and Honda's merit. It's a shame that the sprint race format has interfered with what would have been a normal season where teams could extract the maximum set up for every race. While it does bring an element of excitement and uncertainty it basically has screwed with the formula and schedule that teams relied on to get the set up right. The shortened FP has also contributed to it. F1 should have brought it in next year with the new cars and tires instead of messing with the last year of the current formula. Max and RedBull Honda have had to face adversity but they are delivering, and it really is a feel good story coming full circle ever since his father Jos was a test and development driver for Honda with young max sitting in the car. When you think about how the dominant Mercedes team was actually the former Honda F1 team, it pleases me that Honda leaves a mark and everlasting impression in F1. And Max is the Piquet/Mansell/Senna of this Honda F1 era.

[Just_a_fan]

So what?

The driver of the best/fastest car probably did win the title in 1997, 1999, 2003, 2010 and 2012. That didn’t stop those seasons from being classics.

2001 is the first season I watched live. I watched 1997 and 1999 in full through some dodgy websites.

Anyway, that’s not really relevant to the point.

Agreed, this season is going to be one that will be talked about for a long time. It's remiscent of the golden age of F1 86-92, which is worth watching too. F1 is exciting to watch thanks to Max, RedBull and Honda's merit. It's a shame that the sprint race format has interfered with what would have been a normal season where teams could extract the maximum set up for every race. While it does bring an element of excitement and uncertainty it basically has screwed with the formula and schedule that teams relied on to get the set up right. The shortened FP has also contributed to it. F1 should have brought it in next year with the new cars and tires instead of messing with the last year of the current formula. Max and RedBull Honda have had to face adversity but they are delivering, and it really is a feel good story coming full circle ever since his father Jos was a test and development driver for Honda with young max sitting in the car. When you think about how the dominant Mercedes team was actually the former Honda F1 team, it pleases me that Honda leaves a mark and everlasting impression in F1. And Max is the Piquet/Mansell/Senna of this Honda F1 era.

It's great to see a fight at the front, but it's not purely on merit. The floor changes ended up hurting the Merc more than the Red Bull, McLaren, etc. That's good for the sport as it's made the season exciting, which we all want.

The irony with Honda is that they always seem to make a big impression when they're an engine supplier, but not as a team. Williams Honda, McLaren Honda (Senna era, of course, not the Alonso era), now RedBull Honda.

Max as the Piquet/Mansell/Senna? That's three very, very different drivers you compared to there. Arrogant/insulting, bullheaded/determined, emotional. All very quick, of course.

Not sure Max would like to be compared to other drivers - he's just Max.

[Ryar]

2001 is the first season I watched live. I watched 1997 and 1999 in full through some dodgy websites.

Anyway, that’s not really relevant to the point.

Agreed, this season is going to be one that will be talked about for a long time. It's remiscent of the golden age of F1 86-92, which is worth watching too. F1 is exciting to watch thanks to Max, RedBull and Honda's merit. It's a shame that the sprint race format has interfered with what would have been a normal season where teams could extract the maximum set up for every race. While it does bring an element of excitement and uncertainty it basically has screwed with the formula and schedule that teams relied on to get the set up right. The shortened FP has also contributed to it. F1 should have brought it in next year with the new cars and tires instead of messing with the last year of the current formula. Max and RedBull Honda have had to face adversity but they are delivering, and it really is a feel good story coming full circle ever since his father Jos was a test and development driver for Honda with young max sitting in the car. When you think about how the dominant Mercedes team was actually the former Honda F1 team, it pleases me that Honda leaves a mark and everlasting impression in F1. And Max is the Piquet/Mansell/Senna of this Honda F1 era.

It's great to see a fight at the front, but it's not purely on merit. The floor changes ended up hurting the Merc more than the Red Bull, McLaren, etc. That's good for the sport as it's made the season exciting, which we all want.

The irony with Honda is that they always seem to make a big impression when they're an engine supplier, but not as a team. Williams Honda, McLaren Honda (Senna era, of course, not the Alonso era), now RedBull Honda.

Max as the Piquet/Mansell/Senna? That's three very, very different drivers you compared to there. Arrogant/insulting, bullheaded/determined, emotional. All very quick, of course.

Not sure Max would like to be compared to other drivers - he's just Max.

Not purely on merit? Because the regulation changes hurt Mercedes in 2021? If we use the same yardstick, 2014 changes hurt Red Bull Renault and hence the titles that Mercedes and Hamilton won are not on pure merit.

Regulation changes are roll of dice, whether they are small or big. Once accepted, the excuses for not having got it right, sound very lame.

[NathanOlder]

Agreed, this season is going to be one that will be talked about for a long time. It's remiscent of the golden age of F1 86-92, which is worth watching too. F1 is exciting to watch thanks to Max, RedBull and Honda's merit. It's a shame that the sprint race format has interfered with what would have been a normal season where teams could extract the maximum set up for every race. While it does bring an element of excitement and uncertainty it basically has screwed with the formula and schedule that teams relied on to get the set up right. The shortened FP has also contributed to it. F1 should have brought it in next year with the new cars and tires instead of messing with the last year of the current formula. Max and RedBull Honda have had to face adversity but they are delivering, and it really is a feel good story coming full circle ever since his father Jos was a test and development driver for Honda with young max sitting in the car. When you think about how the dominant Mercedes team was actually the former Honda F1 team, it pleases me that Honda leaves a mark and everlasting impression in F1. And Max is the Piquet/Mansell/Senna of this Honda F1 era.

It's great to see a fight at the front, but it's not purely on merit. The floor changes ended up hurting the Merc more than the Red Bull, McLaren, etc. That's good for the sport as it's made the season exciting, which we all want.

The irony with Honda is that they always seem to make a big impression when they're an engine supplier, but not as a team. Williams Honda, McLaren Honda (Senna era, of course, not the Alonso era), now RedBull Honda.

Max as the Piquet/Mansell/Senna? That's three very, very different drivers you compared to there. Arrogant/insulting, bullheaded/determined, emotional. All very quick, of course.

Not sure Max would like to be compared to other drivers - he's just Max.

Not purely on merit? Because the regulation changes hurt Mercedes in 2021? If we use the same yardstick, 2014 changes hurt Red Bull Renault and hence the titles that Mercedes and Hamilton won are not on pure merit.

Regulation changes are roll of dice, whether they are small or big. Once accepted, the excuses for not having got it right, sound very lame.

No, I think what Just_a_fan was getting at is, this year, the cars have had a regulation change, but the teams weren't allowed to start from a blank page. So its not the same as 2014 as example, RedBull had every chance to get 2014 right, if they chose the wrong power unit, or didn't build their own, thats on them.

This season you had 2 tokens, and there were lots of parts that required changes, but you were unable to do so.

[mkay]

Agreed, this season is going to be one that will be talked about for a long time. It's remiscent of the golden age of F1 86-92, which is worth watching too. F1 is exciting to watch thanks to Max, RedBull and Honda's merit. It's a shame that the sprint race format has interfered with what would have been a normal season where teams could extract the maximum set up for every race. While it does bring an element of excitement and uncertainty it basically has screwed with the formula and schedule that teams relied on to get the set up right. The shortened FP has also contributed to it. F1 should have brought it in next year with the new cars and tires instead of messing with the last year of the current formula. Max and RedBull Honda have had to face adversity but they are delivering, and it really is a feel good story coming full circle ever since his father Jos was a test and development driver for Honda with young max sitting in the car. When you think about how the dominant Mercedes team was actually the former Honda F1 team, it pleases me that Honda leaves a mark and everlasting impression in F1. And Max is the Piquet/Mansell/Senna of this Honda F1 era.

It's great to see a fight at the front, but it's not purely on merit. The floor changes ended up hurting the Merc more than the Red Bull, McLaren, etc. That's good for the sport as it's made the season exciting, which we all want.

The irony with Honda is that they always seem to make a big impression when they're an engine supplier, but not as a team. Williams Honda, McLaren Honda (Senna era, of course, not the Alonso era), now RedBull Honda.

Max as the Piquet/Mansell/Senna? That's three very, very different drivers you compared to there. Arrogant/insulting, bullheaded/determined, emotional. All very quick, of course.

Not sure Max would like to be compared to other drivers - he's just Max.

Not purely on merit? Because the regulation changes hurt Mercedes in 2021? If we use the same yardstick, 2014 changes hurt Red Bull Renault and hence the titles that Mercedes and Hamilton won are not on pure merit.

Regulation changes are roll of dice, whether they are small or big. Once accepted, the excuses for not having got it right, sound very lame.

Not even close to being remotely comparable, lmao.

The combination of the COVID pandemic, the 2022 regulations and the newly setup cost cap have crippled teams' abilities to develop their 2021 car, meaning if you got the short end of the stick due to regs, you couldn't claw your way back at all.

That being said, fair play to Red Bull for working hard at developing their 2021 car, but Mercedes has been playing with one hand tied behind its back all season.