2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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Hammerfist
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Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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Manoah2u wrote:
16 Sep 2021, 04:46
agreed. a podium is not impossible though, but still unlikely. I think Mercedes would do wise to keep away from a new engine and instead let Lewis go for it and go for the win.
It'll be a points grabbing fest. worst case scenario (excluding a DNF), Lewis ends up P2 by driving a bit more 'restraint' so that he doesn't lose precious points: it's very likely he's going to get enough points to pass Max in the WDC anyway. I would expect a win for either Lewis, Ricciardo (again) or Norris (1st).
Mclaren won't be a threat to win in Russia, unless Mercedes and Redbull are taken out... The track has enough corners where the Mclaren will probably fall into the crutches of Ferrari and won't be able to keep up with the top two cars. Max starting likely on the second row still has a good chance at winning. A lot of talk about taking the engine penalty there, but I'm not so sure I agree with that. He will be a good start and a good slipstream away from challenging the leader of the race at turn one. The win is very much still on for Redbull.

Hammerfist
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Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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Wouter wrote:
16 Sep 2021, 10:40
f1jcw wrote:
16 Sep 2021, 10:19
Andres125sx wrote:
16 Sep 2021, 07:49
PS: I´ve always criticized Max because of his excess of aggresiveness, but here the one pushing other driver off track was Lewis, so he was who caused the crash. That or a racing incident, but Max did nothing wrong here, he was trying to pass a slower car coming out of pits for the victory, what ANY driver would have done
.
Max did nothing wrong?
He crashed into another car, quite seriously, he went for a gap that wasn't there and should have backed off.

Will people stop making excuses.
.
Is that so? I don't think so.

Hamilton left enough space at first for Max to dive in. As Max did this, Lewis kept squeezing him off and there wasn't enough room for both of them.
Lewis did this imo to force Max to cut the corner so Max got on the track before Lewis and had to give him back his position.

Max never expected Lewis to keep squeezing and when the gap wasn't wide enough, it was too late to cut the corner
and he had to go over the high curbs.
Very clever of Lewis and Max fell for it. Unfortunately for Lewis, his race also came to an end, zero points!
Max defended Ricciardo during the sprint race start, he left the same amount of room Hamilton did at turn 2. The difference is that Ricciardo knew it was time to back off and he did. Max should have backed off against Hamilton.


maxxer
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Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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Hammerfist wrote:
16 Sep 2021, 10:50
Wouter wrote:
16 Sep 2021, 10:40
f1jcw wrote:
16 Sep 2021, 10:19

.
Max did nothing wrong?
He crashed into another car, quite seriously, he went for a gap that wasn't there and should have backed off.

Will people stop making excuses.
.
Is that so? I don't think so.

Hamilton left enough space at first for Max to dive in. As Max did this, Lewis kept squeezing him off and there wasn't enough room for both of them.
Lewis did this imo to force Max to cut the corner so Max got on the track before Lewis and had to give him back his position.

Max never expected Lewis to keep squeezing and when the gap wasn't wide enough, it was too late to cut the corner
and he had to go over the high curbs.
Very clever of Lewis and Max fell for it. Unfortunately for Lewis, his race also came to an end, zero points!
Max defended Ricciardo during the sprint race start, he left the same amount of room Hamilton did at turn 2. The difference is that Ricciardo knew it was time to back off and he did. Max should have backed off against Hamilton.

That shows how you can still back off and make the corner good video!

e30ernest
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Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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Yes that's a pretty good example of what Max could have done in that situation. Good post.

f1jcw
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Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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Wouter wrote:
16 Sep 2021, 10:40
f1jcw wrote:
16 Sep 2021, 10:19
Andres125sx wrote:
16 Sep 2021, 07:49
PS: I´ve always criticized Max because of his excess of aggresiveness, but here the one pushing other driver off track was Lewis, so he was who caused the crash. That or a racing incident, but Max did nothing wrong here, he was trying to pass a slower car coming out of pits for the victory, what ANY driver would have done
.
Max did nothing wrong?
He crashed into another car, quite seriously, he went for a gap that wasn't there and should have backed off.

Will people stop making excuses.
.
Is that so? I don't think so.

Hamilton left enough space at first for Max to dive in. As Max did this, Lewis kept squeezing him off and there wasn't enough room for both of them.
Lewis did this imo to force Max to cut the corner so Max got on the track before Lewis and had to give him back his position.

Max never expected Lewis to keep squeezing and when the gap wasn't wide enough, it was too late to cut the corner
and he had to go over the high curbs.
Very clever of Lewis and Max fell for it. Unfortunately for Lewis, his race also came to an end, zero points!
And Max left a space at Silverstone but I presume you will let Lewis off for that? No? No I didn't expect you to.

The gap was decreasing all the time, Max was behind, he was always going to crash.

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Wouter
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Joined: 16 Dec 2017, 13:02

Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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f1jcw wrote:
16 Sep 2021, 11:59
Wouter wrote:
16 Sep 2021, 10:40
f1jcw wrote:
16 Sep 2021, 10:19

.
Max did nothing wrong?
He crashed into another car, quite seriously, he went for a gap that wasn't there and should have backed off.

Will people stop making excuses.
.
Is that so? I don't think so.

Hamilton left enough space at first for Max to dive in. As Max did this, Lewis kept squeezing him off and there wasn't enough room for both of them.
Lewis did this imo to force Max to cut the corner so Max got on the track before Lewis and had to give him back his position.

Max never expected Lewis to keep squeezing and when the gap wasn't wide enough, it was too late to cut the corner
and he had to go over the high curbs.
Very clever of Lewis and Max fell for it. Unfortunately for Lewis, his race also came to an end, zero points!
And Max left a space at Silverstone but I presume you will let Lewis off for that? No? No I didn't expect you to.

The gap was decreasing all the time, Max was behind, he was always going to crash.
.
Those are just assumptions on your part . You don't know how I feel about Silverstone at all.
The Power of Dreams!

selvam_e2002
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Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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don't waste time in debating who is right and who is wrong. Let see who come out of it and capture the WDC this year. Very interesting F1 season this year.

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Cucciolo
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Joined: 19 Jan 2021, 10:14

Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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I think you guys are missing the fact that Max didn't lure Ricci in to a gap that he intended to close along the corner.

In stead Max made it very clear to Ricci by not leaving a gap/trap to drive in to in the first place.
A huge thanks to Jos Verstappen for giving us so much extra joy in life.

ArcticWolfie
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Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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Cucciolo wrote:
16 Sep 2021, 14:16
I think you guys are missing the fact that Max didn't lure Ricci in to a gap that he intended to close along the corner.

In stead Max made it very clear to Ricci by not leaving a gap/trap to drive in to in the first place.
Indeed, Buxton, Palmer, Scott, Brundle, etc.. all pointed out that Verstappen makes it very clear there's no gap while Hamilton doesn't do that.

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Wouter
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Joined: 16 Dec 2017, 13:02

Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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Cucciolo wrote:
16 Sep 2021, 14:16
I think you guys are missing the fact that Max didn't lure Ricci in to a gap that he intended to close along the corner.

In stead Max made it very clear to Ricci by not leaving a gap/trap to drive in to in the first place.
Exactly, and as @ArcticWolfie says: "Buxton, Palmer, Scott, Brundle, etc.. all pointed out that Verstappen makes it very clear there's no gap."

Image

Image

Here is a gap.

Image

The Power of Dreams!

e30ernest
e30ernest
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Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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Actually on your photo there, Lewis closed the door earlier on Max than Max did for Ricciardo. Ricciardo simply backed out knowing that Max will close that door while Max didn't back out in Lewis case. I think this is why the stewards gave the penalty.

To be clear, I thought this was a racing incident with potentially Hamilton more at fault. I do understand the reason why it might be Max's too though.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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Wouter wrote:
16 Sep 2021, 15:07


Here is a gap.

https://i.imgur.com/Sq7iFaG.gif
Hamilton didn't leave a gap - Max was accelerating around him trying to get ahead before Hamilton could turn in - unfortunately for him, he didn't get far enough to "claim" it. That's what the stewards meant when they said he started the move too late. If he had been able to drive around the outside level with Hamilton, he'd have had the corner. But he came around the outside from behind after Hamilton had focussed in to the chicane. Ergo, he was too late to make the move.

It's a fine line, admittedly, between the two situations but that's why they get paid the big bucks.

I think Danny decided he didn't want to get involved with a title race driver and so stayed out of the way. Norris was very careful near Hamilton behind them too, doubtless for the same reason. No doubt both had been reminded by their team before the race started - "don't take out one of the two title leaders as we don't need the hassle and public outcry focussed on us".
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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NathanOlder
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Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 10:05
Location: Kent

Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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e30ernest wrote:
16 Sep 2021, 15:21
Actually on your photo there, Lewis closed the door earlier on Max than Max did for Ricciardo. Ricciardo simply backed out knowing that Max will close that door while Max didn't back out in Lewis case. I think this is why the stewards gave the penalty.
Exactly this, Lewis closed the gap sooner than Max, only difference was Ricciardo backed out because he knew he was driving in to a dead end. Max accelerated in to a closing gap in an attempt to get level maybe. It's like a divebomb in to turn 2, that happened through turn 1 rather than on a straight.
Last edited by NathanOlder on 16 Sep 2021, 16:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Unf
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Joined: 19 Jul 2018, 21:56

Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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NathanOlder wrote:
16 Sep 2021, 16:08
Lewis closed the gap sooner than Max
In other word - missed the apex intentionally. Excatly the same intetion as he did on Silverstone - missed apex on purpose.

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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Unf wrote:
16 Sep 2021, 16:12
NathanOlder wrote:
16 Sep 2021, 16:08
Lewis closed the gap sooner than Max
In other word - missed the apex intentionally. Excatly the same intetion as he did on Silverstone - missed apex on purpose.
Who missed which apex ?
GoLandoGo
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King George has arrived.

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