2021 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, Nov 05 - 07

[AeroDynamic]

The stand out feature of Max this year is that he is not making mistakes. He is almost machine like.
Max of last year was likely to go for a 48/52 if it would be advantageous for the other guy if the both DNF, this year he is weighing up everything and not caving to pressure. Even his radio calls are like he is in a business meeting rather than getting his moss off with the team, even when they may deserve it.


Someone somewhere has taken him aside and put a new perspective in his head. Whoever it was (especially if it was himself) is responsible for his success this year. He is Prost like.

He’s certainly taken steps forward but he isn’t the finished article (yet?) I don’t agree with your opinion about him being like Prost at this stage, he still nearly threw away his championship by battling very hard into a corner that he didn’t need to. What you said is a very diplomatic way of saying he doesn’t drive with very poor judgement like he did a couple of years ago.

But otherwise I agree with his driving performance in terms of consistency and working under pressure. He just needs to bring in a little more willingness to see the bigger picture, pick his battles and risks and know when to comrpomise for the grand scheme of things.

IMO he did exactly what he should have done in Monza. It's overrated to say, "picking the battle". When the championship contender is available for an attack, in a close championship fight, a driver has to take chances, which Max did. There was space and like most top dogs, he went for it. He gained psychological edge in that incident, if not points on track.

Of course you believe that, and I was talking about Silverstone not Monza. Of course, if Lewis continued in Monza then I would cite it, but fortune went Max’s way that occasion and there was equal loss on both sides in that clash.

Thankfully for Verstappen, the team, the car, backing the level he has been at this year, he will likely get away with it this time. But if he continues to force battles that he doesn’t need to, it will cost him championships in the future, when he is fighting another team / driver / car that is also enjoying a season as good as his. It definitely helps when fortune comes back your way to compensate for misfortune in other races, but that doesn’t always happen. And in this season, if it had not, it could’ve easily cost him the championship.

[Ryar]

He’s certainly taken steps forward but he isn’t the finished article (yet?) I don’t agree with your opinion about him being like Prost at this stage, he still nearly threw away his championship by battling very hard into a corner that he didn’t need to. What you said is a very diplomatic way of saying he doesn’t drive with very poor judgement like he did a couple of years ago.

But otherwise I agree with his driving performance in terms of consistency and working under pressure. He just needs to bring in a little more willingness to see the bigger picture, pick his battles and risks and know when to comrpomise for the grand scheme of things.

IMO he did exactly what he should have done in Monza. It's overrated to say, "picking the battle". When the championship contender is available for an attack, in a close championship fight, a driver has to take chances, which Max did. There was space and like most top dogs, he went for it. He gained psychological edge in that incident, if not points on track.

Of course you believe that, and I was talking about Silverstone not Monza. Of course, if Lewis continued in Monza then I would cite it, but fortune went Max’s way that occasion and there was equal loss on both sides in that clash.

Thankfully for Verstappen, the team, the car, backing the level he has been at this year, he will likely get away with it this time. But if he continues to force battles that he doesn’t need to, it will cost him championships in the future, when he is fighting another team / driver / car that is also enjoying a season as good as his. It definitely helps when fortune comes back your way to compensate for misfortune in other races, but that doesn’t always happen. And in this season, if it had not, it could’ve easily cost him the championship.

Silverstone was a clearly dumb move from Lewis. Officials agree with that. What happens in future is anyone's guess and of course, you can believe your opinion. Every great champions of the past have forced battles, which were questionable, but went on to win championships and to be considered great. I don't see how Max is playing it different. Then there are other good, smart drivers, who were wise, but then lost out in championship battles. There is no clear template to follow, other than instricts.

[JordanMugen]

Seeing how Merc just got overtaken by RB as fastest and best car on the grid

Seems premature. This is a high-altitude track with lots of slow corners. It remains to be seen if Red Bull are also easily faster at Silverstone-style tracks with primarily fast corners. It also seems to depend on track temperature.

On average, the Red Bull has certainly been slightly ahead over the season, but I'm not sure at a Catalunya or Silverstone type track that the Red Bull is easily faster than the Mercedes.

Didnt you see COTA?

Yes. Red Bull wasn't easily faster there, IIRC the winning margin was closer to 2 seconds than 20 seconds.

[AeroDynamic]

IMO he did exactly what he should have done in Monza. It's overrated to say, "picking the battle". When the championship contender is available for an attack, in a close championship fight, a driver has to take chances, which Max did. There was space and like most top dogs, he went for it. He gained psychological edge in that incident, if not points on track.

Of course you believe that, and I was talking about Silverstone not Monza. Of course, if Lewis continued in Monza then I would cite it, but fortune went Max’s way that occasion and there was equal loss on both sides in that clash.

Thankfully for Verstappen, the team, the car, backing the level he has been at this year, he will likely get away with it this time. But if he continues to force battles that he doesn’t need to, it will cost him championships in the future, when he is fighting another team / driver / car that is also enjoying a season as good as his. It definitely helps when fortune comes back your way to compensate for misfortune in other races, but that doesn’t always happen. And in this season, if it had not, it could’ve easily cost him the championship.

Silverstone was a clearly dumb move from Lewis. Officials agree with that. What happens in future is anyone's guess and of course, you can believe your opinion. Every great champions of the past have forced battles, which were questionable, but went on to win championships and to be considered great. I don't see how Max is playing it different. Then there are other good, smart drivers, who were wise, but then lost out in championship battles. There is no clear template to follow, other than instricts.

Well, if it’s a “dumb” move what does that make of Max’s defence to fall for it? officials didn’t agree with red bull and max. If they did, red bull wouldn’t have been upset for weeks after, or felt the need to argue further action by going to get their reserve driver to do simulation runs of the incident at Silverstone which of course, the stewards continued to disagree with them. But I’m sure what you’re saying is true, and it’s just the MaFIA

Yes they have forced battles in the final rounds when it was decisive to stay in the championship hunt. Those were battles their championship hinged on. Silverstone wasn’t for Max, and it set him back into MCS jaws. Unnecessary. Michael being an example of doing it when it was critical. Senna in 90 is not even the same, that was a deliberate sabotage of another driver, and a revenge act for a previous injustice from 89. But, it was atleast in the final rounds and a critical phase of the championship.

[langedweil]

After watching the start again and again, my personal conclusion is bottas had a bad start and was.easily passed by lewis first, without slipstream. Then max took the stream and was quicker than bottas in taking external line, accellerating like hell. Bottas could do nothing

It seemed as if Bot was just overly eager to help Ham as much as possible, but by botching his start he was of no use at all because he couldn't give a tow to his teammate that was already next to him.
And by that he kinda effectively lauched Max into P1 (who probably mumbled something along the way lile 'thnx mate !")

Weirdly enough all weeks talk-of-the-town was about teamorders within RB, but yet the teamorder within Merc seemed to have been the main reason for the T1 issues.
Typical ...

[101FlyingDutchman]

Wow the children have come out to play.

3 simple facts of this weekend and F1:

RB didn’t maximise quali leaving the door open for HAM to dictate the start if he had maximised his own.

HAM didn’t qualify P1 which made him having to rely on a team mate who has ALWAYS been poor in pure race craft and on high fuel loads

Once racing car drivers don’t go for gaps anymore that exist they no longer are racing drivers (Quote Senna). We LOVE the fact they go racing. Calculating your way to a world title is essential but some are advocating for robots around a track. Enjoy the fact these are wheel to wheel racers. Putting on a show. It has consequences which is what everyone is always bickering about, but without them trying their hardest we’d be in for a boring sport

[Ryar]

Of course you believe that, and I was talking about Silverstone not Monza. Of course, if Lewis continued in Monza then I would cite it, but fortune went Max’s way that occasion and there was equal loss on both sides in that clash.

Thankfully for Verstappen, the team, the car, backing the level he has been at this year, he will likely get away with it this time. But if he continues to force battles that he doesn’t need to, it will cost him championships in the future, when he is fighting another team / driver / car that is also enjoying a season as good as his. It definitely helps when fortune comes back your way to compensate for misfortune in other races, but that doesn’t always happen. And in this season, if it had not, it could’ve easily cost him the championship.

Silverstone was a clearly dumb move from Lewis. Officials agree with that. What happens in future is anyone's guess and of course, you can believe your opinion. Every great champions of the past have forced battles, which were questionable, but went on to win championships and to be considered great. I don't see how Max is playing it different. Then there are other good, smart drivers, who were wise, but then lost out in championship battles. There is no clear template to follow, other than instricts.

Well, if it’s a “dumb” move what does that make of Max’s defence to fall for it? officials didn’t agree with red bull and max. If they did, red bull wouldn’t have been upset for weeks after, or felt the need to argue further action by going to get their reserve driver to do simulation runs of the incident at Silverstone which of course, the stewards continued to disagree with them. But I’m sure what you’re saying is true, and it’s just the MaFIA

Yes they have forced battles in the final rounds when it was decisive to stay in the championship hunt. Those were battles their championship hinged on. Silverstone wasn’t for Max, and it set him back into MCS jaws. Unnecessary. Michael being an example of doing it when it was critical. Senna in 90 is not even the same, that was a deliberate sabotage of another driver, and a revenge act for a previous injustice from 88. But, it was atleast in the final rounds and a critical phase of the championship.

You should read Stewards statement about Lewis' penalty in Silverstone.

[AeroDynamic]

Once racing car drivers don’t go for gaps anymore that exist they no longer are racing drivers (Quote Senna). We LOVE the fact they go racing. Calculating your way to a world title is essential but some are advocating for robots around a track. Enjoy the fact these are wheel to wheel racers. Putting on a show. It has consequences which is what everyone is always bickering about, but without them trying their hardest we’d be in for a boring sport

If you’re aiming this at me, I feel I should address this because you’re misrepresenting what was said and what it’s about. Nobody actually said the drivers should be gap adverse. What has been said is drivers should be a little less yield adverse, yield enough and protect your car from contact. when it makes sense to. That’s not being a robot or being boring. It’s all entertainment and it’s all racing, I’m not complaining. Well, actually I should complain, because if people knew when to yield we might get races that last longer than one battle in one corner, and we would get more value for money. But anyway I’m simply saying it’s in Max’s favour to secure championships that he could lose in future, where another team / driver / car is having as strong a season as he has enjoyed this year, and where such a setback would prove decisive for the other driving keeping the lead and taking a title.

[AeroDynamic]

Silverstone was a clearly dumb move from Lewis. Officials agree with that. What happens in future is anyone's guess and of course, you can believe your opinion. Every great champions of the past have forced battles, which were questionable, but went on to win championships and to be considered great. I don't see how Max is playing it different. Then there are other good, smart drivers, who were wise, but then lost out in championship battles. There is no clear template to follow, other than instricts.

Well, if it’s a “dumb” move what does that make of Max’s defence to fall for it? officials didn’t agree with red bull and max. If they did, red bull wouldn’t have been upset for weeks after, or felt the need to argue further action by going to get their reserve driver to do simulation runs of the incident at Silverstone which of course, the stewards continued to disagree with them. But I’m sure what you’re saying is true, and it’s just the MaFIA

Yes they have forced battles in the final rounds when it was decisive to stay in the championship hunt. Those were battles their championship hinged on. Silverstone wasn’t for Max, and it set him back into MCS jaws. Unnecessary. Michael being an example of doing it when it was critical. Senna in 90 is not even the same, that was a deliberate sabotage of another driver, and a revenge act for a previous injustice from 88. But, it was atleast in the final rounds and a critical phase of the championship.

You should read Stewards statement about Lewis' penalty in Silverstone.

Red bull should have taken your advice instead of turning into hysterical, grievance collecting ninnies who insisted one driver was wholly to blame

[Ryar]

Well, if it’s a “dumb” move what does that make of Max’s defence to fall for it? officials didn’t agree with red bull and max. If they did, red bull wouldn’t have been upset for weeks after, or felt the need to argue further action by going to get their reserve driver to do simulation runs of the incident at Silverstone which of course, the stewards continued to disagree with them. But I’m sure what you’re saying is true, and it’s just the MaFIA

Yes they have forced battles in the final rounds when it was decisive to stay in the championship hunt. Those were battles their championship hinged on. Silverstone wasn’t for Max, and it set him back into MCS jaws. Unnecessary. Michael being an example of doing it when it was critical. Senna in 90 is not even the same, that was a deliberate sabotage of another driver, and a revenge act for a previous injustice from 88. But, it was atleast in the final rounds and a critical phase of the championship.

You should read Stewards statement about Lewis' penalty in Silverstone.

Red bull should have taken your advice instead of turning into hysterical, grievance collecting ninnies who insisted one driver was wholly to blame

That still doesn't change the fact that, officials deemed Lewis was at fault. Your argument is deviating away.

[AeroDynamic]

You should read Stewards statement about Lewis' penalty in Silverstone.

Red bull should have taken your advice instead of turning into hysterical, grievance collecting ninnies who insisted one driver was wholly to blame

That still doesn't change the fact that, officials deemed Lewis was at fault. Your argument is deviating away.

It doesn’t change the fact they found max at fault otherwise it would be a slam dunk “wholly to blame” penalty for Hamilton to serve, not a ‘slap on the wrist’ as red bull saw it. exactly how much blame the stewards apportioned to each is anyone’s guess and pure speculation. They certainly were under pressure from all those hysterical reactions though, I’m surprised they didn’t go harsh given they probably caved in to what was a racing incident in most eyes. It certainly continued a trend of things this year where incidents are no longer racing incidents. Monza included.

[Ryar]

Red bull should have taken your advice instead of turning into hysterical, grievance collecting ninnies who insisted one driver was wholly to blame

That still doesn't change the fact that, officials deemed Lewis was at fault. Your argument is deviating away.

It doesn’t change the fact they found max at fault otherwise it would be a slam dunk “wholly to blame” penalty for Hamilton to serve, not a ‘slap on the wrist’ as red bull saw it. exactly how much blame the stewards apportioned to each is anyone’s guess and pure speculation. They certainly were under pressure from all those hysterical reactions though, I’m surprised they didn’t go harsh given they probably caved in to what was a racing incident in most eyes. It certainly continued a trend of things this year where incidents are no longer racing incidents. Monza included.

One can try and please oneself however they want with that decision, by adding self-satiating dimentions. The official document simply read, "Driver #44, was at fault predominantly". They didn't even mention Max in that statement. Same applies to Monza, a racing incident, which, using your words, "caving in to pressure", stewards deemed Max was fault.

[AeroDynamic]

That still doesn't change the fact that, officials deemed Lewis was at fault. Your argument is deviating away.

It doesn’t change the fact they found max at fault otherwise it would be a slam dunk “wholly to blame” penalty for Hamilton to serve, not a ‘slap on the wrist’ as red bull saw it. exactly how much blame the stewards apportioned to each is anyone’s guess and pure speculation. They certainly were under pressure from all those hysterical reactions though, I’m surprised they didn’t go harsh given they probably caved in to what was a racing incident in most eyes. It certainly continued a trend of things this year where incidents are no longer racing incidents. Monza included.

One can try and please oneself however they want with that decision, by adding self-satiating dimentions. The official document simply read, "Driver #44, was at fault predominantly". They didn't even mention Max in that statement.

Why do they need to mention max? They aren’t serving him a penalty, so they don’t need to outline his fault in the incident to Lewis. Predominantly is not wholly. It means more to blame than the other, and as I said before, it’s pure speculation how much They blamed Hamilton. But given he got an equivalent penalty to Max in Monza, and RB called Monza a racing incident, then that demonstrates the line the FIA have been taking this year, and how little they thought of Hamilton’s move.. after all, red bull complained that max nearly died, and the car was a huge bill. Yet the FIA felt a few seconds was appropriate, despite how Lewis was able to continue and max wasn’t. The post crash circumstances gave them plenty angle to blame Lewis wholly or near wholly, to give a very harsh penalty.. but it didn’t come. Hmm. Something can’t be right, he must be almost fully to blame from what you keep inferring, but FIA didn’t agree with what red bull felt was appropriate. Sigh, must be MaFIA.. Monza was looked at similarity to Silverstone, despite Most people Agree that both were racing incidents. the ones that don’t, are mostly made up of partisan followers behind one or the other camp / driver.

[Ryar]

It doesn’t change the fact they found max at fault otherwise it would be a slam dunk “wholly to blame” penalty for Hamilton to serve, not a ‘slap on the wrist’ as red bull saw it. exactly how much blame the stewards apportioned to each is anyone’s guess and pure speculation. They certainly were under pressure from all those hysterical reactions though, I’m surprised they didn’t go harsh given they probably caved in to what was a racing incident in most eyes. It certainly continued a trend of things this year where incidents are no longer racing incidents. Monza included.

One can try and please oneself however they want with that decision, by adding self-satiating dimentions. The official document simply read, "Driver #44, was at fault predominantly". They didn't even mention Max in that statement.

Why do they need to mention max? They aren’t serving him a penalty, so they don’t need to outline his fault in the incident to Lewis. Predominantly is not wholly. It means more to blame than the other, and as I said before, it’s pure speculation how much They blamed Hamilton. But given he got an equivalent penalty to Max in Monza, and RB called Monza a racing incident, then that demonstrates the line the FIA have been taking this year, and how little they thought of Hamilton’s move.. after all, red bull complained that max nearly died, and the car was a huge bill. Yet the FIA felt a few seconds was appropriate, despite how Lewis was able to continue and max wasn’t. The post crash circumstances gave them plenty angle to blame Lewis wholly or near wholly, to give a very harsh penalty.. but it didn’t come. Hmm. Something can’t be right, he must be almost fully to blame from what you keep inferring, but FIA didn’t agree with what red bull felt was appropriate. Sigh, must be MaFIA.. Monza was looked at similarity to Silverstone, despite Most people Agree that both were racing incidents. the ones that don’t, are mostly made up of partisan followers behind one or the other camp / driver.

I highlighted about Max not having mentioned in the Silverstone verdict, because you apportioned blame to Max, without officials having said anything about it!
FIA sporting rules clearly say and the race director has highlighted, they don't consider the impact in an incident. So, they have a rule book and they use it to dish out penalty. Everything else is subjective and irrelevant for officials. Whether the penalty dished out to Lewis is appropriate or light, is a matter of subjective discussion, considering the damage it did to Max's car and the real potential physical danger of it. For all practical and official intent and purposes, Lewis was to blame in Silverstone. That incident cannot be attributed to prove that Max doesn't know how to handle a championship fight situation.

[101FlyingDutchman]

Once racing car drivers don’t go for gaps anymore that exist they no longer are racing drivers (Quote Senna). We LOVE the fact they go racing. Calculating your way to a world title is essential but some are advocating for robots around a track. Enjoy the fact these are wheel to wheel racers. Putting on a show. It has consequences which is what everyone is always bickering about, but without them trying their hardest we’d be in for a boring sport

If you’re aiming this at me, I feel I should address this because you’re misrepresenting what was said and what it’s about. Nobody actually said the drivers should be gap adverse. What has been said is drivers should be a little less yield adverse, yield enough and protect your car from contact. when it makes sense to. That’s not being a robot or being boring. It’s all entertainment and it’s all racing, I’m not complaining. Well, actually I should complain, because if people knew when to yield we might get races that last longer than one battle in one corner, and we would get more value for money. But anyway I’m simply saying it’s in Max’s favour to secure championships that he could lose in future, where another team / driver / car is having as strong a season as he has enjoyed this year, and where such a setback would prove decisive for the other driving keeping the lead and taking a title.

Wasn’t aiming it at anyone in particular. I’m just dog tired of the same old tripe being put because of their own “fan dom bias” which they can’t leave at the door and discuss subjects objectively