2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
runningmanz
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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When space hopper racing goes wrong. Lando's reply is gold! :lol:




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continuum16
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:52 pm
continuum16 wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:38 pm
diffuser wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:33 pm


Alpine car is like a lego car, for example, the side floor is made of 4 or 5 seperate pieces. Instead of changing the whole floor, they can rework just a piece of it. I haven't seen that on other cars or to the same extent. Atleast I haven't noticed it elsewhere.
I've also noticed that. I would be shocked if more teams don't follow this philosophy next year, given that Alpine seems to be the only team that has pursued a "normal" development rate.
RBR is flying with parts too. New front floor and PU cover this race. Maybe faster than Alpine. I can't explain them.
RB I don’t understand; they say they are on track to miss the budget cap, yet seemingly every week the car rocks up with something new. Especially odd when you consider Ferrari, Merc, Alfa, and McLaren have stated that they can’t really develop at the rate they want b/c of the cap. Alpine I can almost understand because they really did not do much development in 2021 and their car was relatively basic at launch, so I’m not surprised to see them developing more than most (plus the patchwork design).

As for McLaren I think it’s becoming clear that like 2009 when they went with inwash because that’s what the previous rule set required while the rest of the grid went to outwash, the skinny sidepods and exposed floor are not the way to go. It probably makes more sense to add the remainder of the 2022 development budget into 2023. If you divert say 7 or 8 million it would mitigate most of the losses from WCC payout and add extra wind tunnel/CFD allowance.
I was an American F1 fan before it was cool…

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adrianjordan
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:48 pm


The MCL36 was pushed down the order to try and beat Ferrari and now we are between a rock and a hard place. It has taken the shine of the Mclaren Resurgence that is for sure, and I think that is the main issue most have. I just hope that the design and engineering team we have can shine in this new era and demonstrate their talents.
Thing is, the resurgence was given a bit of a false dawn by how much Ferrari struggled in 2020 and to a lesser extent 2021 due to their PU. If you look at the latter part of 2021, after they upgraded their ERS system, Ferrari regularly outscored McLaren.

This season is about learning the new rules and understanding the new cars. We get the new wind tunnel next season as well as upgrades to several other design tools etc, as well as the advantages of having more WT/CFD time available than the teams ahead. 2024/5 is when we can really hope to return to winning ways. Perhaps next season the occasional win on merit might be possible, but we shouldn't get disheartened, even if we end up slipping to 5th.

Remember where we are coming back from, this is still an improvement!!

To quote one of my heroes: "Patience padawan" 🤣
Favourite driver: Lando Norris
Favourite team: McLaren

Turned down the chance to meet Vettel at Silverstone in 2007. He was a test driver at the time and I didn't think it was worth queuing!! 🤦🏻‍♂️

Ben1980
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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I do think peopke have underestimated the budget cap impacted, maybe even teams.

The battle is for 4th while trying to build for next season. Its still doable.

CjC
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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I agree, I’ve certainly underestimated it.

What I’m struggling to get my head around, why are the likes of Ferrari and McLaren, even Merc struggling to upgrade compared to their direct rivals?

You have Merc who are have updated their front wing end plate which bears the scares of the previous spec.

What’s going on with Mclaren though?
Does running Toyotas wind tunnel cost more? You have the hire costs, they have to fly personnel to Germany etc
Is building the new wind tunnel accountable under this seasons cost cap?
Was selling the MTC a mistake for short term gain for long term pain. Mclaren now pays rent on their building, how much does that cost? 5 million a year? Which could go towards development?
Have they got too many employees? Do they have one person who brews the tea and one person who brews the coffee? Do they need to ask just one of them to do both?
Just a fan's point of view

Swed3120
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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CjC wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:18 am
I agree, I’ve certainly underestimated it.

What I’m struggling to get my head around, why are the likes of Ferrari and McLaren, even Merc struggling to upgrade compared to their direct rivals?

You have Merc who are have updated their front wing end plate which bears the scares of the previous spec.

What’s going on with Mclaren though?
Does running Toyotas wind tunnel cost more? You have the hire costs, they have to fly personnel to Germany etc
Is building the new wind tunnel accountable under this seasons cost cap?
Was selling the MTC a mistake for short term gain for long term pain. Mclaren now pays rent on their building, how much does that cost? 5 million a year? Which could go towards development?
Have they got too many employees? Do they have one person who brews the tea and one person who brews the coffee? Do they need to ask just one of them to do both?
On the personell front, Zak Browns expansionism isn’t the only reason we have launched a xtremeE and Fe team, they are also places that aren’t under the budget cap to put staff

Emag
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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What confuses me is how the hell are they policing the budget cap when it comes to R&D?

What stops a team like McLaren to give their personel of other divisions F1 related tasks "in secret"?

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adrianjordan
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Emag wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:59 am
What confuses me is how the hell are they policing the budget cap when it comes to R&D?

What stops a team like McLaren to give their personel of other divisions F1 related tasks "in secret"?
I assume it has do do with the chain of IP, as was key in the Aston Martin side pod discussion, and a team would have to prove where the IP came from. If it comes from outside, I presume they have to apportion a cost to it.
Favourite driver: Lando Norris
Favourite team: McLaren

Turned down the chance to meet Vettel at Silverstone in 2007. He was a test driver at the time and I didn't think it was worth queuing!! 🤦🏻‍♂️

Ben1980
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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We know that Mclaren have upgraded throughout the season. Maybe it comes to the line that it's just a waste of money, and they need to look at the impact into the next car rather than rushing it all out.

Alpine basically did nothing for a year, and put more thought into the following years cars.

Is it a bad thing? Probably not. It's interesting that Red Bull and Ferrari seem to have been the only 2 who have nailed the new regs. So everyone else is in similar boats.

And if Mclaren hold onto 4th it will be pretty impressive on an underachieving car...

mwillems
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:33 pm
CjC wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:36 pm
diffuser wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:16 pm


Yes, they have. You might remember about a month ago Williams got a penalty for filing late AND had to the absorbe the costs for the FIA to perform an audit. Double the penality.


Basically Teams that pushed hard late last year and ended up using less of thier 2021 budget towards thier 2022 car are now looking for an increased budget cause they're running out of cash.

Pretty sure that a team like Alpine built most of the 2022 car with the 2021 budget. That's left them with the whole 141.2 million to work on upgrades of the 2022 car. The 2023 budget will just keep updating the 2022 car cause it is just an extension of the 2022.
I was going to ask if anyone had any thoughts as to why Alpine can heavily update the car this season apposed to Mclaren who have hit a brick wall.
If you are right then that explains why Alpine are relentlessly churning out upgrades this season. They could get to the front by the end of the season at this rate.
Alpine car is like a lego car, for example, the side floor is made of 4 or 5 seperate pieces. Instead of changing the whole floor, they can rework just a piece of it. I haven't seen that on other cars or to the same extent. Atleast I haven't noticed it elsewhere.
Wasn't the MCL36 supposed to be modular?? I'm sure that was said at pre-season or thereabouts.

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mwillems
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Emag wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:59 am
What confuses me is how the hell are they policing the budget cap when it comes to R&D?

What stops a team like McLaren to give their personel of other divisions F1 related tasks "in secret"?
This was raised a year ago when that Aero guy who posted a lot on twitter moved to the Indy team, not sure how it is policed, at least at the time no one was able to understand how it was demonstrated. I mean, what prevents someone from having a genius idea leap forward that is actually 200 hours of external CFD!
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

mwillems
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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adrianjordan wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:37 am
mwillems wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:48 pm


The MCL36 was pushed down the order to try and beat Ferrari and now we are between a rock and a hard place. It has taken the shine of the Mclaren Resurgence that is for sure, and I think that is the main issue most have. I just hope that the design and engineering team we have can shine in this new era and demonstrate their talents.
Thing is, the resurgence was given a bit of a false dawn by how much Ferrari struggled in 2020 and to a lesser extent 2021 due to their PU. If you look at the latter part of 2021, after they upgraded their ERS system, Ferrari regularly outscored McLaren.

This season is about learning the new rules and understanding the new cars. We get the new wind tunnel next season as well as upgrades to several other design tools etc, as well as the advantages of having more WT/CFD time available than the teams ahead. 2024/5 is when we can really hope to return to winning ways. Perhaps next season the occasional win on merit might be possible, but we shouldn't get disheartened, even if we end up slipping to 5th.

Remember where we are coming back from, this is still an improvement!!

To quote one of my heroes: "Patience padawan" 🤣
Yes master. Although the new Obi Wan series was also a massive disappointment so perhaps the wrong phrase!

My point though is that now more than ever, ingenuity and talent in the design teams is paramount. We can no longer throw money at winning the championship. And at our first attempt we have not done very well.... If our second attempt were not to fare very well, what would that say for the talent at our disposal...?

it is not a judgement on our team but we can't just point the finger at the budget cap and the wind tunnel and the general conversation seems to want to always defend the folks at the factory, or at least they are never mentioned, it is general the tools that are the problem, not the workmen... Well, they are a part of any problem and solution and we have to be open to the fact that the issue may not be what we think it is and this time next year it may be clear that personnel may need to change.
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

Mclarenfanboy
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Yeah , everybody knows that, I mean , even Key is nothing more than average, if he was like a superstar that McLaren says he is, he would not be at McLaren. Prodromou was a star at Red Bull , but apart from him, I don t see any big names, and that is not derogatory in any way, being is average in F1 is nothing to me ashamed for, it s a pinnacle of engineering. We are a mediocre team, so at the moment we can only attract mediocre talent, but if Lando bought it , why shouldn't we ...?

101FlyingDutchman
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Well. This looks promising……!!!

haza
haza
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Any word on drag this weekend ?