2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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iRacer
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Ben1980 wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:51 pm
Aren't there tins of reports of Mclaren hoping to make a big step in 2023?
I don't see how they can. Nothing will change vs the top 3 in 2023. McLaren have shown they can't do anything better than the top 3 (including Ferrari when they aren't recovering from getting caught cheating). Not until this new wind tunnel is in full flow will McLaren take a big step and even then they need to get it right and have a driver close to as good as Norris. 4th will be an achievement in 2023. If Piastri settles in extremely quickly 4th should be doable. Should have been 4th this year.

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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Good to see Piastri getting a very solid number of laps in in the test.

mwillems
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:22 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:08 pm
Ben1980 wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:55 pm
Didn't they change the concept towards the end of the season to be able to gain more from it. They changed it a lot throughout the season.

I very much doubt they will scrap all the work they did to get the car how it was. They talk was about being able to work from there.
Yes, but what we’ve seen so far is McLaren making aero development, limited to its existing chassis concept,

Now they have the opportunity to change the chassis, to what extent will they choose to do so, and will that lead to a new aero concept. I mean, and its unlikely but still an example, they could choose to peruse a Mercedes philosophy if they now wanted
The latest update (Singapore) implied a Chassis change, that’s why only Lando had it there and then Daniel in Japan… I’m sure that based on time constraints and been in the middle of the season didn’t allow them to implement all the changes they would have liked.

Read that for example a clear change would be on trying to raise the back of the car a bit more in order to allow additional suspension travel and therefore more compliance from it, that was one of the challenges this year in the sense that the car was designed to run pretty flat, which involved a very rigid rear suspension setup (to avoid it from bottoming out) and the necessity to raise the car a bit more than what they would have wanted in order to avoid both bottoming and porpoising… I don’t think we will see rake like in the previous generation, but the concept and the Tunnel design will probably have that in mind.
The Singapore update wasn't chassis related, but the floor that they tested and did not race recently was only fully compatible with a higher rear, which this car cannot run.

So the team have made clear that they will raise the rear in the new car by showing that design. Alongside those sidepods, it seems that they have chosen the general direction of Red Bull, but I suppose that could change.
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MrGapes
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:27 am
SmallSoldier wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:22 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:08 pm


Yes, but what we’ve seen so far is McLaren making aero development, limited to its existing chassis concept,

Now they have the opportunity to change the chassis, to what extent will they choose to do so, and will that lead to a new aero concept. I mean, and its unlikely but still an example, they could choose to peruse a Mercedes philosophy if they now wanted
The latest update (Singapore) implied a Chassis change, that’s why only Lando had it there and then Daniel in Japan… I’m sure that based on time constraints and been in the middle of the season didn’t allow them to implement all the changes they would have liked.

Read that for example a clear change would be on trying to raise the back of the car a bit more in order to allow additional suspension travel and therefore more compliance from it, that was one of the challenges this year in the sense that the car was designed to run pretty flat, which involved a very rigid rear suspension setup (to avoid it from bottoming out) and the necessity to raise the car a bit more than what they would have wanted in order to avoid both bottoming and porpoising… I don’t think we will see rake like in the previous generation, but the concept and the Tunnel design will probably have that in mind.
The Singapore update wasn't chassis related, but the floor that they tested and did not race recently was only fully compatible with a higher rear, which this car cannot run.

So the team have made clear that they will raise the rear in the new car by showing that design. Alongside those sidepods, it seems that they have chosen the general direction of Red Bull, but I suppose that could change.
I do believe the chassis required alterations for the Singapore upgrade, to fully pursue red bull's design philosophy chassis changes will 100% be needed...things like the lower sis bar positioning needs to be changed etc.

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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onewingedangel wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:07 am
The Singapore update wasn't a chassis change but a modification, so they were working with the constraints of the existing chassis.

https://www.mclaren.com/racing/team/the ... n-upgrade/
A matter of interpretation I guess… A modification implies changing something… The chassis after Singapore isn’t the same as the ones before it and as stated, not as thorough as they would have wanted since they had a need to deliver it in within season and with the budget cap as a constrain.

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:27 am
SmallSoldier wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:22 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:08 pm


Yes, but what we’ve seen so far is McLaren making aero development, limited to its existing chassis concept,

Now they have the opportunity to change the chassis, to what extent will they choose to do so, and will that lead to a new aero concept. I mean, and its unlikely but still an example, they could choose to peruse a Mercedes philosophy if they now wanted
The latest update (Singapore) implied a Chassis change, that’s why only Lando had it there and then Daniel in Japan… I’m sure that based on time constraints and been in the middle of the season didn’t allow them to implement all the changes they would have liked.

Read that for example a clear change would be on trying to raise the back of the car a bit more in order to allow additional suspension travel and therefore more compliance from it, that was one of the challenges this year in the sense that the car was designed to run pretty flat, which involved a very rigid rear suspension setup (to avoid it from bottoming out) and the necessity to raise the car a bit more than what they would have wanted in order to avoid both bottoming and porpoising… I don’t think we will see rake like in the previous generation, but the concept and the Tunnel design will probably have that in mind.
The Singapore update wasn't chassis related, but the floor that they tested and did not race recently was only fully compatible with a higher rear, which this car cannot run.

So the team have made clear that they will raise the rear in the new car by showing that design. Alongside those sidepods, it seems that they have chosen the general direction of Red Bull, but I suppose that could change.
From Piers Thynne in a McLaren article:

"In June and July, we were in aerodynamic development, and it started to show enough promise for us to create more detail on this from a planning perspective. We spent a lot of time in July making sure that the performance step was enough because the scope of work and cost was high. The operational side of the team was going into a lot of detail to be certain and de-risk all aspects because the scope of work was so vast, and it involved taking the chassis out of service.

"This was a bonded chassis change, so we take the chassis back to its raw state and re-bond the brackets, the radiator ducts, the side pod uppers and everything else back on it. It was a considerable effort, and like everything we do, it's all about collaboration and teamwork."

It wasn’t a new chassis but a modification of the existing one, clearly there was movement of certain components required, ergo a change in the chassis… I may be misinterpreting it, but that’s how I read it.

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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Mcl_G10 wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:06 am
CjC wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:41 pm
Mcl_G10 wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:31 am
Hello, i am a registered new member to the site but a long long time lurker. I just love the technical information and insights from this site and im glad its here for us as fans because otherwise there is very little that f1 as a whole provides to armchair fans in a technical capacity other than hyperbole and the basic info.

Anyway. I happen to have a friend that i work with who is a friend of an employee of mclaren. My work friend likes f1 but is overall very clueless with all techincalities so his information to me often very lazy and generalised. Anyway this guy that my workfriend is friends with is part of the team that travels over to germany to use toyotas wind tunnel. I believe he is some kind of test driver although i am yet to verify this.
Fingers crosses i can provide some insight over time and bits of info here and there.I must admit that the early information i am hearing is not particularly good.

If what i have said is not deemed appropriate for whatever reason then i apologise and was all intended in good faith. Thanks
What isn’t particularly good? The 2023 car?
I am currently waiting on more information on specifics, hopefully get some more detail on monday. What i have been told so far is that "the car is slow" and "the designers/engineers are not happy." Those were his words to my friend.
I'm taking your information with a pinch of salt. Test drivers do not travel to wind tunnels or have anything to do with wind tunnel testing.....

mwillems
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:47 am
mwillems wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:27 am
SmallSoldier wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:22 pm


The latest update (Singapore) implied a Chassis change, that’s why only Lando had it there and then Daniel in Japan… I’m sure that based on time constraints and been in the middle of the season didn’t allow them to implement all the changes they would have liked.

Read that for example a clear change would be on trying to raise the back of the car a bit more in order to allow additional suspension travel and therefore more compliance from it, that was one of the challenges this year in the sense that the car was designed to run pretty flat, which involved a very rigid rear suspension setup (to avoid it from bottoming out) and the necessity to raise the car a bit more than what they would have wanted in order to avoid both bottoming and porpoising… I don’t think we will see rake like in the previous generation, but the concept and the Tunnel design will probably have that in mind.
The Singapore update wasn't chassis related, but the floor that they tested and did not race recently was only fully compatible with a higher rear, which this car cannot run.

So the team have made clear that they will raise the rear in the new car by showing that design. Alongside those sidepods, it seems that they have chosen the general direction of Red Bull, but I suppose that could change.
From Piers Thynne in a McLaren article:

"In June and July, we were in aerodynamic development, and it started to show enough promise for us to create more detail on this from a planning perspective. We spent a lot of time in July making sure that the performance step was enough because the scope of work and cost was high. The operational side of the team was going into a lot of detail to be certain and de-risk all aspects because the scope of work was so vast, and it involved taking the chassis out of service.

"This was a bonded chassis change, so we take the chassis back to its raw state and re-bond the brackets, the radiator ducts, the side pod uppers and everything else back on it. It was a considerable effort, and like everything we do, it's all about collaboration and teamwork."

It wasn’t a new chassis but a modification of the existing one, clearly there was movement of certain components required, ergo a change in the chassis… I may be misinterpreting it, but that’s how I read it.
The chassis wasn't changed, I think they changed layout within to accommodate the sidepods, radiator shapes.

I think we refer to a redesign that allows for a different ride height, something not possible in season.
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mwillems
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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MrGapes wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:41 am
mwillems wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:27 am
SmallSoldier wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:22 pm


The latest update (Singapore) implied a Chassis change, that’s why only Lando had it there and then Daniel in Japan… I’m sure that based on time constraints and been in the middle of the season didn’t allow them to implement all the changes they would have liked.

Read that for example a clear change would be on trying to raise the back of the car a bit more in order to allow additional suspension travel and therefore more compliance from it, that was one of the challenges this year in the sense that the car was designed to run pretty flat, which involved a very rigid rear suspension setup (to avoid it from bottoming out) and the necessity to raise the car a bit more than what they would have wanted in order to avoid both bottoming and porpoising… I don’t think we will see rake like in the previous generation, but the concept and the Tunnel design will probably have that in mind.
The Singapore update wasn't chassis related, but the floor that they tested and did not race recently was only fully compatible with a higher rear, which this car cannot run.

So the team have made clear that they will raise the rear in the new car by showing that design. Alongside those sidepods, it seems that they have chosen the general direction of Red Bull, but I suppose that could change.
I do believe the chassis required alterations for the Singapore upgrade, to fully pursue red bull's design philosophy chassis changes will 100% be needed...things like the lower sis bar positioning needs to be changed etc.
I "think" the chassis wasn't changed, it was detached from everything on and in it, and then parts reattached.

This allowed parts to move and a new shape accommodated.

A change to the chassis would take months due to crash testing and Mclaren would probably not have had time to do this, or the cost.

I'd imagine they'll wait until the chassis design of next year's car is complete so it can all be done at once.

Crash testing happens from now onwards I think.
Last edited by mwillems on Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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CjC
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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I wouldn’t be suprised if we saw 20 red Bulls on the grid next season.
Just a fan's point of view

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diffuser
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Image
mwillems wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:27 am
SmallSoldier wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:22 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:08 pm


Yes, but what we’ve seen so far is McLaren making aero development, limited to its existing chassis concept,

Now they have the opportunity to change the chassis, to what extent will they choose to do so, and will that lead to a new aero concept. I mean, and its unlikely but still an example, they could choose to peruse a Mercedes philosophy if they now wanted
The latest update (Singapore) implied a Chassis change, that’s why only Lando had it there and then Daniel in Japan… I’m sure that based on time constraints and been in the middle of the season didn’t allow them to implement all the changes they would have liked.

Read that for example a clear change would be on trying to raise the back of the car a bit more in order to allow additional suspension travel and therefore more compliance from it, that was one of the challenges this year in the sense that the car was designed to run pretty flat, which involved a very rigid rear suspension setup (to avoid it from bottoming out) and the necessity to raise the car a bit more than what they would have wanted in order to avoid both bottoming and porpoising… I don’t think we will see rake like in the previous generation, but the concept and the Tunnel design will probably have that in mind.
The Singapore update wasn't chassis related, but the floor that they tested and did not race recently was only fully compatible with a higher rear, which this car cannot run.

So the team have made clear that they will raise the rear in the new car by showing that design. Alongside those sidepods, it seems that they have chosen the general direction of Red Bull, but I suppose that could change.
Image


What is so high about the RBR rear suspension?

The regs are already forcing the floor sides up 15 MM in comparison to this year and in correlation to the plank. They are also increasing the min diffuser throat size. The result is by doing nothing, the change in regs, are forcing the car to be higher off the ground at the same 2022 suspension settings.

Notice how the line between #1 and #2 is higher up in 2023 than it is in 2022. That is the throat. The #3 is the floor sides.
Last edited by diffuser on Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

PhillipM
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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It's forcing the floor edges to be higher, not the car ride height.

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diffuser
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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PhillipM wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:17 pm
It's forcing the floor edges to be higher, not the car ride height.
Added a picture afterwords. The throat is higher.

The higher the ride high, the further off the ground you're getting. Clearly, everyone wants to get as close to the ground as possible (without causing a stall). They fought the FIA tooth and nail to go down from the intial 25mm reg change.

unless you're talking about suspension travel.
Last edited by diffuser on Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:04 am
MrGapes wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:41 am
mwillems wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:27 am


The Singapore update wasn't chassis related, but the floor that they tested and did not race recently was only fully compatible with a higher rear, which this car cannot run.

So the team have made clear that they will raise the rear in the new car by showing that design. Alongside those sidepods, it seems that they have chosen the general direction of Red Bull, but I suppose that could change.
I do believe the chassis required alterations for the Singapore upgrade, to fully pursue red bull's design philosophy chassis changes will 100% be needed...things like the lower sis bar positioning needs to be changed etc.
I "think" the chassis wasn't changed, it was detached from everything on and in it, and then parts reattached.

This allowed parts to move and a new shape accommodated.

A change to the chassis would take months due to crash testing and Mclaren would probably not have had time to do this, or the cost.

I'd imagine they'll wait until the chassis design of next year's car is complete so it can all be done at once.

Crash testing happens from now onwards I think.
We may be confusing what the Chassis is with what the “Tub” and safety structures are, two different things… The tub is part of the chassis (and the one going through crash test requirements)

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:21 pm
PhillipM wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:17 pm
It's forcing the floor edges to be higher, not the car ride height.
Added a picture afterwords. The throat is higher.

The higher the ride high, the further off the ground you're getting. Clearly, everyone wants to get as close to the ground as possible (without causing a stall). They fought the FIA tooth and nail to go down from the intial 25mm reg change.

unless you're talking about suspension travel.
The plank is still in the same position (and what is effectively bottoming out)… Raising the Tunnel Throat and Raising the Floor Edge won’t affect that.

McLaren’s current tunnel concept implied running with a low ride height and rigid rear suspension (short suspension travel), by moving to a concept that works with increased ride height, they can use a softer suspension and therefore have a car that is more compliant on the kerbs, bumps and potentially managing porpoising better.