FIA Thread

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bonjon1979
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Re: FIA Thread

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diffuser wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:55 pm
bonjon1979 wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 7:40 pm
Man from autocratic state where there are no elections or dissent allowed wants to clamp down on freedom of expression. Total shocker.
Most jobs that are in the public eye, the employee is representing the company and therefore needs to tow the company line. They're getting paid to be where they are,therefore, that time isn't theirs. Not that different to Johnny Depp not being given the Jack Sparrow character(or postponed the project) because of allegations of spousal abuse. Disney didn't want to be associated with supporting a spousal abuser. Some of the items that the drivers support will be possitive but will always have people that get turned off by the driver's stance; "not saying anything" decreases the chances of losing those people and therefore sponsors.

Probably F1 wants to have more control over it's public image than just the willy-nilly choices of the drivers.
I'm not sure you can conflate probable spousal abuse with talking about all people being deserving of human rights. Bin Suilemen is quite mendiciously invoking the cool drivers of the past that 'just got on and raced' because he knows the nation he hails from is one of the worst when it comes to human rights and doesn't want to be criticised. Driver's should be free to speak their mind, if what they say causes a bad reaction amongst the majority of the people watching then I'm sure they won't last long. If the majority of people go along with it, I'm sure they'll be fine. For example, in the UAE women are allowed to work but only if they have the permission of their fathers. If hamilton came out and said that's wrong, and they should be able to do whatever they want regardless of what their dad's think, then I'm sure most reasonable people would agree. If he came out and said that women shouldn't be allowed to work unless a man gives permission, I'm sure the court of public opinion would treat him harshly. You get what you deserve and nations like the UAE, Saudi, Russia, China deserve that criticism for their human rights record.

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diffuser
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Re: FIA Thread

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GrizzleBoy wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:45 pm
diffuser wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:56 am
wogx wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:30 pm
It's great that we have people like Hamilton or Vettel in F1 - you can't drop the most successful drivers just because of their views, and we know that they cares about minorities
I don't think they want that, nor do they want them to stop having views. Just not at F1 events.At those events, they're representing F1 and need to tow the company line.
So what's F1s company line on homosexuals also being treated as humans?

What about supporting that idea goes against F1 managements ideals?
You're making it specifically about this one subject, does F1 agree or not with Homosexuals. It isn't that, his statement is more of a general statement about controlling the narrative. Presenting as they want it presented. I would NOT be surprised that they want a cut of the $$ pie either. Kind of like what they did for Racisim. It's a F1 Message not a Vettel Message. If Vettel wants to support homosexuals on his own, he can do it on his on time, not at F1 race events.

That's what I get from what he's writing.
Last edited by diffuser on Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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chrisc90
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Re: FIA Thread

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The other option or view to look at this is drivers campaigning against country specific measures.

For example specific clothing at say Abu Dubai. If drivers are promoting that day men or women shouldn’t be forced to wear this or that, xyz parts covered up and they should have a choice of what to wear and how, then that goes against country specific rules that could have been round hundreds of years. Should F1/FIA be seen as promoting drivers who think that’s wrong because they can use the sport as a platform to reach millions?

Clothing merely an am example but imagine there’s countries where F1 visits that don’t allow same sex marriages, work ethics, etc etc. you get the idea.

Imagine 20 drivers using your countries GP event saying country rules/laws are inappropriate
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!

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Big Tea
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Re: FIA Thread

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Where as I support the case of what most drivers are fronting, I would prefer that drivers be drivers on F1 time, and politicians on their own time.
If things overlap, so be it, use the publicity. But I prefer sport to be sport and not include politics of any sort.

If it is something that is inherent or happens in that sport, fair play, there is a case such as Hamilton's call for diversity, or if a driver was given grief about gender or religious beliefs etc, that's different, but anything without a direct baring I prefer not to mix.

There will always be overlaps, but until now we have avoided most problems
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

wesley123
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Re: FIA Thread

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Did he really not know that Prost and then FIA president Balestre were on very good terms with each other?

I think he's crossing a bit of a line with placing personal beliefs at a same level as opinions on protocol, imo this really hurts the credibility of the stance he is taking.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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Red Rock Mutley
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Re: FIA Thread

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Big Tea wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:27 pm
Where as I support the case of what most drivers are fronting, I would prefer that drivers be drivers on F1 time, and politicians on their own time....
I know where you're going with sport and politics shouldn't mix; they make very poor bedfellows (pun intended). Of course, the problem with that view is that you ask the sportspeople to be morally flexible when it suits the sport. Perhaps best phrased, "please keep quiet because these people pay us a lot of money". And that, for me, is the greater evil - quietly standing by while others profit from corrupt behaviour. It's a sad reflection on F1 that it's only in their later years that the drivers feel able to stand up and speak their minds. As for not upsetting the host country, I think you either take F1 as a whole or steer well clear. Accepting that hosting a race will shine a spotlight on your County. And if that causes a problem, then don't apply..... don't use F1 to promote yourself!

Jolle
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Re: FIA Thread

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So… it’s ok for drivers and teams to promote smoking, energy drinks and betting but a rainbow sticker is seen as something “not in line with F1”? And “should be sticking to driving”?

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chrisc90
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Re: FIA Thread

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Jolle wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:53 pm
So… it’s ok for drivers and teams to promote smoking, energy drinks and betting but a rainbow sticker is seen as something “not in line with F1”? And “should be sticking to driving”?
I thought smoking advertisements were banned in F1 from 2006?

I think the stance here by the FIA is whether it can cause offence to host countries. For example promoting LGBT in the UAE. There LGBT is actually a crime and punishable by law. That's where F1 needs to tread carefully I think.

Imagine if I rocked up to your house, you invited me in but asked me to take my shoes off.....however I didnt remove them when coming in.... Same principle really that the FIA is 'looking' to clamp down on. Why have a driver(s) come into your home country, and do their own thing.
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!

Jolle
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Re: FIA Thread

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chrisc90 wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 5:14 pm
Jolle wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:53 pm
So… it’s ok for drivers and teams to promote smoking, energy drinks and betting but a rainbow sticker is seen as something “not in line with F1”? And “should be sticking to driving”?
I thought smoking advertisements were banned in F1 from 2006?

I think the stance here by the FIA is whether it can cause offence to host countries. For example promoting LGBT in the UAE. There LGBT is actually a crime and punishable by law. That's where F1 needs to tread carefully I think.

Imagine if I rocked up to your house, you invited me in but asked me to take my shoes off.....however I didnt remove them when coming in.... Same principle really that the FIA is 'looking' to clamp down on. Why have a driver(s) come into your home country, and do their own thing.
F1 is a marketing machine first and foremost. Sponsors, teams and countries aren’t there because of the love of the sport.
When F1 let’s itself to be used to boost the image of a regime that criminalise someone’s sexual orientation, the question shouldn’t be “should we ban outings that strive towards basic equality” but should be: “wtf are we doing here”.

And for the smoking bit, British American tobacco is sponsoring McLaren and up to last year, Philip Morris was Ferrari’s biggest sponsor.

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chrisc90
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Re: FIA Thread

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Jolle wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 5:21 pm
chrisc90 wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 5:14 pm
Jolle wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:53 pm
So… it’s ok for drivers and teams to promote smoking, energy drinks and betting but a rainbow sticker is seen as something “not in line with F1”? And “should be sticking to driving”?
I thought smoking advertisements were banned in F1 from 2006?

I think the stance here by the FIA is whether it can cause offence to host countries. For example promoting LGBT in the UAE. There LGBT is actually a crime and punishable by law. That's where F1 needs to tread carefully I think.

Imagine if I rocked up to your house, you invited me in but asked me to take my shoes off.....however I didnt remove them when coming in.... Same principle really that the FIA is 'looking' to clamp down on. Why have a driver(s) come into your home country, and do their own thing.
F1 is a marketing machine first and foremost. Sponsors, teams and countries aren’t there because of the love of the sport.
When F1 let’s itself to be used to boost the image of a regime that criminalise someone’s sexual orientation, the question shouldn’t be “should we ban outings that strive towards basic equality” but should be: “wtf are we doing here”.

And for the smoking bit, British American tobacco is sponsoring McLaren and up to last year, Philip Morris was Ferrari’s biggest sponsor.
Where do you stop with that though? Do we not go to the UK or the USA because we sent people into other countries to kill people because of Iraq...whatnot. Do we not go to Germany because of WW1 and WW2? Do we not go to other countries because of slavery?
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!

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Big Tea
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Re: FIA Thread

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Jolle wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:53 pm
So… it’s ok for drivers and teams to promote smoking, energy drinks and betting but a rainbow sticker is seen as something “not in line with F1”? And “should be sticking to driving”?
But the drivers do not decide which company logos are on their cars, and if they do not agree with it it is between the driver and team to sort out, not become part of the F1 weekend entertainment. That is a whole new case if it includes team politics.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

GrizzleBoy
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Re: FIA Thread

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chrisc90 wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 5:28 pm
Jolle wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 5:21 pm
chrisc90 wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 5:14 pm


I thought smoking advertisements were banned in F1 from 2006?

I think the stance here by the FIA is whether it can cause offence to host countries. For example promoting LGBT in the UAE. There LGBT is actually a crime and punishable by law. That's where F1 needs to tread carefully I think.

Imagine if I rocked up to your house, you invited me in but asked me to take my shoes off.....however I didnt remove them when coming in.... Same principle really that the FIA is 'looking' to clamp down on. Why have a driver(s) come into your home country, and do their own thing.
F1 is a marketing machine first and foremost. Sponsors, teams and countries aren’t there because of the love of the sport.
When F1 let’s itself to be used to boost the image of a regime that criminalise someone’s sexual orientation, the question shouldn’t be “should we ban outings that strive towards basic equality” but should be: “wtf are we doing here”.

And for the smoking bit, British American tobacco is sponsoring McLaren and up to last year, Philip Morris was Ferrari’s biggest sponsor.
Where do you stop with that though? Do we not go to the UK or the USA because we sent people into other countries to kill people because of Iraq...whatnot. Do we not go to Germany because of WW1 and WW2? Do we not go to other countries because of slavery?
Well then another option is to allow people to speak their minds or wear whatever colour T shirt they like.

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diffuser
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Re: FIA Thread

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Big Tea wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 6:04 pm
Jolle wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:53 pm
So… it’s ok for drivers and teams to promote smoking, energy drinks and betting but a rainbow sticker is seen as something “not in line with F1”? And “should be sticking to driving”?
But the drivers do not decide which company logos are on their cars, and if they do not agree with it it is between the driver and team to sort out, not become part of the F1 weekend entertainment. That is a whole new case if it includes team politics.
I agree with Big tea. I think the drivers should stay away from politics.
Also, this isn't about what's right and what's wrong. It's who decides the agenda. It's F1's platform, so they get to dictate how that get's managed and by who. I bet alot of this stuff will come under the discussions on the drivers cap stuff.

To be honest, I don't really care. I barely noticed Vettel backing of gay rights. For all we know Vettel is getting paid to do that.

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chrisc90
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Re: FIA Thread

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GrizzleBoy wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 6:38 pm
chrisc90 wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 5:28 pm
Jolle wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 5:21 pm


F1 is a marketing machine first and foremost. Sponsors, teams and countries aren’t there because of the love of the sport.
When F1 let’s itself to be used to boost the image of a regime that criminalise someone’s sexual orientation, the question shouldn’t be “should we ban outings that strive towards basic equality” but should be: “wtf are we doing here”.

And for the smoking bit, British American tobacco is sponsoring McLaren and up to last year, Philip Morris was Ferrari’s biggest sponsor.
Where do you stop with that though? Do we not go to the UK or the USA because we sent people into other countries to kill people because of Iraq...whatnot. Do we not go to Germany because of WW1 and WW2? Do we not go to other countries because of slavery?
Well then another option is to allow people to speak their minds or wear whatever colour T shirt they like.
Of course, but in some countries...doing things against their laws/beliefs may cause upset.
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!

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wogx
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Re: FIA Thread

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diffuser wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 6:39 pm
I barely noticed Vettel backing of gay rights. For all we know Vettel is getting paid to do that.
By who?