2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Swed3120
Swed3120
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Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:20 pm

Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Maybe I’m overthinking this but does anybody else think that Red Bull has essentially built the same car concept that Mercedes has had for most of the turbo-hybrid era
Hear me out, for the last 8 years , Red Bull has a outstanding chassis , with a lack of raw power , so they compensated with a high drag car to gain back time in the corners.
Mercedes on the other und has always had a power advantage until last year and so built a car with relatively low drag , high top end speed at the slight cost of cornering , knowing that you can only really overtake with DRS, having good acceleration and top speed , you could be slower in the corners and still be ahead.

So this year Red Bull has a car with a power advantage , low drag and high top end speed , all of which means the Ferrari is significantly faster in the twisty bits , but even with DRS, the RB pulls a gap in the straights , just like Mercedes used to and therefore , try as he might Leclerc simply can’t get passed

LM10
LM10
102
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Swed3120 wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 2:36 pm
Maybe I’m overthinking this but does anybody else think that Red Bull has essentially built the same car concept that Mercedes has had for most of the turbo-hybrid era
Hear me out, for the last 8 years , Red Bull has a outstanding chassis , with a lack of raw power , so they compensated with a high drag car to gain back time in the corners.
Mercedes on the other und has always had a power advantage until last year and so built a car with relatively low drag , high top end speed at the slight cost of cornering , knowing that you can only really overtake with DRS, having good acceleration and top speed , you could be slower in the corners and still be ahead.

So this year Red Bull has a car with a power advantage , low drag and high top end speed , all of which means the Ferrari is significantly faster in the twisty bits , but even with DRS, the RB pulls a gap in the straights , just like Mercedes used to and therefore , try as he might Leclerc simply can’t get passed
I'm sorry to say that pretty much all of what you've written is not true.

Mercedes has not only had the best PU, but also the best aero for the majoriy of the turbo-hybrid era. If you have a strong PU, there is no need to go for low drag to compensate for lack of power.

To be precise, it's efficiency which you want to have. You can have a low drag car and still be good in corners, like it's the case with RedBull now. The reason is that their floor produces enough downforce and does not induce porpoising at all. So they can use low drag wings and be even faster on the straights.
Ferrari is better in corners and the big difference in top speed between Ferrari and RedBull disappeared in the last race. The biggest differentiator has been the DRS flap of the RedBull.

Mercedes still have problems which they need to solve first. This season is like a whole testing season for them.

zibby43
zibby43
604
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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dialtone wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 7:15 am
zibby43 wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 6:18 am
dialtone wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 6:14 am


Rather than cracking up a joke, could you help instead understand how they got to being 0.1s behind a car that gave them 20 seconds in 20 laps?
I’m not the one with the jokes.

Let me ask you a question: Do you believe that Shovlin and Vowles are either a) lying or b) have worse data and less understanding of it than you?

I’ll hang up and listen.
So you don't know either.
No, the points have been made ad nauseam regarding comparing similar stints on the same tire, discounting George needing to lift and coast from the beginning of the race (Hamilton from lap 3 onward), comparing the fastest 90% of laps from the top 6, etc.

Never mind Sergio’s fastest lap was 1 tenth faster than Hamilton’s despite less fuel.

I’ve given up answering because you’re only concerned about gaps, and manipulating your data to make it say whatever you want.

I, on the other hand, will defer to the actual team when their data comes out. They have many topics they are incentivized to not be entirely transparent about, but data analysis and relative pace in a past race isn’t one of them.
Last edited by zibby43 on Fri May 27, 2022 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

silver
silver
5
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:50 am

Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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So now they have a different reason for the Monaco porpoising and don't understand it! Seems like Porpoising 2.0!

https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes ... -wheelies/
Russell, who finished FP2 sixth-fastest, said: “The car’s constantly smashing into the floor and we’ve experienced that a lot this year but this is a very different philosophy and reasoning for the bouncing.

“There are sections where both the tyres are off the ground. Turn 5, you’ve got the front right up in the air but it’s so stiff that even the front left is popping up off the ground as well.

“There are points you’re almost doing a wheelie, you don’t have the front wheels on the ground.

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chrisc90
8
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2022 8:22 pm

Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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silver wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 7:08 pm
So now they have a different reason for the Monaco porpoising and don't understand it! Seems like Porpoising 2.0!

https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes ... -wheelies/
Russell, who finished FP2 sixth-fastest, said: “The car’s constantly smashing into the floor and we’ve experienced that a lot this year but this is a very different philosophy and reasoning for the bouncing.

“There are sections where both the tyres are off the ground. Turn 5, you’ve got the front right up in the air but it’s so stiff that even the front left is popping up off the ground as well.

“There are points you’re almost doing a wheelie, you don’t have the front wheels on the ground.
Seems fundamentally impossible. Weight would have to be positioned soooooo far back for that to happen.
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!

zibby43
zibby43
604
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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silver wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 7:08 pm
So now they have a different reason for the Monaco porpoising and don't understand it! Seems like Porpoising 2.0!

https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes ... -wheelies/
Russell, who finished FP2 sixth-fastest, said: “The car’s constantly smashing into the floor and we’ve experienced that a lot this year but this is a very different philosophy and reasoning for the bouncing.

“There are sections where both the tyres are off the ground. Turn 5, you’ve got the front right up in the air but it’s so stiff that even the front left is popping up off the ground as well.

“There are points you’re almost doing a wheelie, you don’t have the front wheels on the ground.
It’s not porpoising lol.

silver
silver
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Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:50 am

Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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zibby43 wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 7:30 pm
silver wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 7:08 pm
So now they have a different reason for the Monaco porpoising and don't understand it! Seems like Porpoising 2.0!

https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes ... -wheelies/
Russell, who finished FP2 sixth-fastest, said: “The car’s constantly smashing into the floor and we’ve experienced that a lot this year but this is a very different philosophy and reasoning for the bouncing.

“There are sections where both the tyres are off the ground. Turn 5, you’ve got the front right up in the air but it’s so stiff that even the front left is popping up off the ground as well.

“There are points you’re almost doing a wheelie, you don’t have the front wheels on the ground.
It’s not porpoising lol.
Mate, you have a long season of lols.

zibby43
zibby43
604
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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silver wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 7:32 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 7:30 pm
silver wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 7:08 pm
So now they have a different reason for the Monaco porpoising and don't understand it! Seems like Porpoising 2.0!

https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes ... -wheelies/
It’s not porpoising lol.
Mate, you have a long season of lols.
Because you keep posting.

I don’t know if it’s ignorance on your part, or deliberate trolling. Either way, I choose to laugh about it since the mods don’t care either way.

2 seconds of research would have led even the most casual F1 fan to see the bouncing was suspension stiffness/track-related. Not porpoising.

And not only was it not porpoising - they 100% understand the cause, as explained above.

So how did you formulate such a BS post originally?

lol.

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PlatinumZealot
496
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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It is confrimed as just bumps in the road and poor suspension.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌

====Zen level====
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Zynerji
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 8:20 pm
It is confrimed as just bumps in the road and poor suspension.
My sim experience is that it has always been like that. You can trigger lasting oscillations if your f/r settings harmonize.

Like an early Porche 924.

Andi76
Andi76
64
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:19 pm

Re: Mercedes W13

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Quantum wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 2:59 pm
restless wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 2:25 pm
Severe bouncing in first training. In Monaco where speeds are not so high?!
It was front suspension related, from both drivers. So not the same problem of porpoising.
The heave spring was changed on George's car during FP1, so might be a case of running too stiff.
Timo Glock noticed its porpoising again, even if i do not think this was the case as Monaco is too slow for any of the cars to actually have a problem with porpoising. But i do think that Monaco will show what i said after Barcelona, which was that Mercedes has not really made progress compared to Ferrari and Red Bull, was right. They are still 0,6-1 second slower and still Topspeed is lower. If they really solved porpoising will only be seen in the next race, as in Barcelona no car had serious issues(probably because they all knew a how to solve that problem on a well known track like Barcelona)and Monaco is just too slow.

CHT
CHT
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Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:24 am

Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 8:20 pm
It is confrimed as just bumps in the road and poor suspension.
Perhaps Merc new anti porpoising suspension set-up is less forgiving on the bumpy Monaco track.

cplchanb
cplchanb
7
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:13 pm

Re: Mercedes W13

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Andi76 wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 10:45 pm
Quantum wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 2:59 pm
restless wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 2:25 pm
Severe bouncing in first training. In Monaco where speeds are not so high?!
It was front suspension related, from both drivers. So not the same problem of porpoising.
The heave spring was changed on George's car during FP1, so might be a case of running too stiff.
Timo Glock noticed its porpoising again, even if i do not think this was the case as Monaco is too slow for any of the cars to actually have a problem with porpoising. But i do think that Monaco will show what i said after Barcelona, which was that Mercedes has not really made progress compared to Ferrari and Red Bull, was right. They are still 0,6-1 second slower and still Topspeed is lower. If they really solved porpoising will only be seen in the next race, as in Barcelona no car had serious issues(probably because they all knew a how to solve that problem on a well known track like Barcelona)and Monaco is just too slow.
You're just affirming what was already predicted by Wolff before the weekend
They already said that the car is not suited to this track. Not mention Monaco has been mercs weakspot almost every year so I don't see this as a strong testament of their overall progress. Merc was behind in 16-18 and 21

VacuousFlamboyant
VacuousFlamboyant
5
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2022 1:45 am

Re: Mercedes W13

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Andi76 wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 10:45 pm
Quantum wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 2:59 pm
restless wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 2:25 pm
Severe bouncing in first training. In Monaco where speeds are not so high?!
It was front suspension related, from both drivers. So not the same problem of porpoising.
The heave spring was changed on George's car during FP1, so might be a case of running too stiff.
Timo Glock noticed its porpoising again, even if i do not think this was the case as Monaco is too slow for any of the cars to actually have a problem with porpoising. But i do think that Monaco will show what i said after Barcelona, which was that Mercedes has not really made progress compared to Ferrari and Red Bull, was right. They are still 0,6-1 second slower and still Topspeed is lower. If they really solved porpoising will only be seen in the next race, as in Barcelona no car had serious issues(probably because they all knew a how to solve that problem on a well known track like Barcelona)and Monaco is just too slow.
Different conditions. Barcelona was hot. In these conditions air is more sparse. Monaco is a coastal city-state and the temperature is low. Air is denser, thus almost everyone is suffering with porpoising. Daniel even crashed because of it. The track is also bumpier. That's a concern. Mercedes' suspension is much more linear and rebounds like a rodeo horse, instead of one from a dressage. Suspension itself, along with the bumps, is creating flow separation and severe hysteresis. Short term solution would be to run a soft setup.

silver
silver
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Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:50 am

Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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zibby43 wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 7:39 pm
silver wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 7:32 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 7:30 pm


It’s not porpoising lol.
Mate, you have a long season of lols.
Because you keep posting.

I don’t know if it’s ignorance on your part, or deliberate trolling. Either way, I choose to laugh about it since the mods don’t care either way.

2 seconds of research would have led even the most casual F1 fan to see the bouncing was suspension stiffness/track-related. Not porpoising.

And not only was it not porpoising - they 100% understand the cause, as explained above.

So how did you formulate such a BS post originally?

lol.
Whatever makes you feel comfortable in a difficult year.