2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
User avatar
ringo
204
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:57 am

Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

chrisc90 wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:25 pm
mstar wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:11 pm
Is it me but has Lewis just gone "soft" with drivers? he leaves MASSIVE gaps on the inside, backs off early when the others keep on it and sometimes hesitant to go for clear gaps.
I mean the perez pass was a rookie mistake the other drivers protected at least the inside but lewis when he knew perez was so close left a hole as big as the circuit and invited perez through. I have seen this last season with Max (and hence why max took risky moves as he knew lewis back off). I mean the abu dhabi pass by max AGAIN lewis left SUCH a big gap on the inside max could sail pass. And then when lewis had a run on him he should of just sent it down on MAX and hope for the best as he isn't going to win coming second and at least having a go is good enough as he could of tapped his rear tyre sending max to wobble or spin.

Sorry i am starting to become frustrated with lewis and his "safety" and Mr "nice / fair driver" business.
Careful saying that in here, people will come after you! :lol: :wtf:

I agree though. Even in the 2 incidents you note, he could have put the car bang in the middle of the track and would have been significantly harder to get past. Even from Dubai, you could take Perez positioning of the car by not allowing room either side to be able to get a move started, as it would have required full send/commitment to get past on the inside or the outside.

JAF - I disagree with you a little there with the FIA/stewards ruleset. Those were rulings that define where racing room has to be left given overtakes on the inside or outside. If we watch the video F1 posted on Facebook (apologies if any regional restrictions for anyone), you can see that if Lewis moved a car to a car and a half width across, he would have had Perez covered off and he would have had nowhere to go. You can see Lewis move over quite a lot in order to get the racing line through the corner. If Lewis stayed in the middle, he could have took a line similar to Perez, or even not go out as wide on the left, and had a good swing at the left hander onto the straight. Perez would have had to stay behind, as he was on Lewis' right, so he was never ever going to outbrake him from that position on the left of Lewis to go round his outside, even so Lewis could have shut the door on him on the outside by moving across like Perez did meaning Perez would have had to go across the kerbs and would never have been able to attack on the straight due to the poor car positioning, the door being closed on the outside, and having a terrible angle for the left hander onto the straight. That move probably cost Lewis 2nd place IMHO.
No perez would be past him in no time.
The pace difference was that much.
The fact that he took the racing line and Perez could squeeze between and have enough grip not to collide with him shows the level of grip in the redbull.
For Sure!!

User avatar
chrisc90
8
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2022 8:22 pm

Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

ringo wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:05 pm

No perez would be past him in no time.
The pace difference was that much.
The fact that he took the racing line and Perez could squeeze between and have enough grip not to collide with him shows the level of grip in the redbull.
Inevitable Perez would have got past, but IMHO, better positioning from Lewis through that section would have meant Perez would have had to overtake at the end of the straight, rather than the entry into the corners.
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!

smith100s
smith100s
0
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:45 pm

Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

I think tyre temps is a massive factor in this. I have noticed for several years especially turn one lap 1 he is 100% more cautious in the braking zones too, it appears measured to me unless it's just a weakness. Red bull by contrast have always had a good braking car.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
558
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

Fun to see keyboard warriors advising a multiple world champion - one with the highest podium finishes and highest percentage finishes in the points of any driver and thus the one guy that obviously maximises his results - how to race. :lol: :lol:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

User avatar
ringo
204
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:57 am

Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:47 pm
Fun to see keyboard warriors advising a multiple world champion - one with the highest podium finishes and highest percentage finishes in the points of any driver and thus the one guy that obviously maximises his results - how to race. :lol: :lol:
Indeed. I am sure he went the fastest he knew the car could manage. From what I have seen this car locks up at a lower limit than the front 2 teams and it also needs time to get tyre temps up.
For Sure!!

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
558
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

Also wondering why people are discussing the British GP in the Merc Team thread. Other than as an excuse to just kill the thread for any meaningful discussions about, you know, the team.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

User avatar
ringo
204
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:57 am

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

Hamilton's pace was down to being faster when everyone else's tyres were worn. It's obvious he has an ability to manage tyres and adapt his racing lines to get pace out of the reduced grip in the tyres.
The others were simply way off their car's ultimatr pace.
Whenever they all were on fresh tyres Lewis pace wasnt special.

But by no means is the W13 fastest. Hamilton simply, as shown in Barcelona, can find relentless pace at the middle and ends of the stints.
For Sure!!

zibby43
zibby43
611
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:02 am
Also wondering why people are discussing the British GP in the Merc Team thread. Other than as an excuse to just kill the thread for any meaningful discussions about, you know, the team.
Standard operating procedure for this thread now, it seems.

User avatar
ringo
204
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:57 am

Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

Yes the periodical Hamilton and Russel bashing. Oh and let's not forget the evil Toto.

Anyhow i think it will take another 3 races before this team can win by atrition.

The pace difference is still a long way off. And because we have reliability issues and really bad driving in the midfield, a safety car is almost inevitable. The SC doesnt help the slower cars much.

The pitstops also continue to be a headache. Why cant mercedes study the other teams to try and figure out how to get 2.4s stops consistently?
Is it that the mechanics need to go the gym? :)
For Sure!!

User avatar
prox
1
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:08 pm

Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

The pit crew certainly need to start doing drills, from a team perspective, this is one area they do need to improve on.

mkay
mkay
14
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 8:30 pm

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

ringo wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:55 am
Whenever they all were on fresh tyres Lewis pace wasnt special.
Once his hard tyres got up to temperature (after 3 laps or so), he was on average 0.5s/lap faster than Sainz and matching Leclerc until the SC was triggered.

OO7
OO7
170
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:49 pm

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

mkay wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:55 am
ringo wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:55 am
Whenever they all were on fresh tyres Lewis pace wasnt special.
Once his hard tyres got up to temperature (after 3 laps or so), he was on average 0.5s/lap faster than Sainz and matching Leclerc until the SC was triggered.
His hard tyres were fresher than both Ferrari's. The difference (off the top of my head) was something like 12 laps fresher than Sainz and 6 laps fresher than LeClerc. Degradation was low however.

SuperCNJ
SuperCNJ
2
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:36 pm

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

ringo wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:55 am
Whenever they all were on fresh tyres Lewis pace wasnt special.
I think to get a meaningful comparison as to whether LH's pace was special, you have to look at his pace against his teammate when they're both on the same tyres. I guess you'll never get a perfect comparison but it's perhaps more meaningful than comparing with another team. And the sense I get is that not only is LH getting more pace out of pretty much any tyre against GR and most of his past teammates, he can maintain the pace for longer than all his teammates. And very often the tyres finish up in better condition too. How he does this I have no idea!

Michael
Michael
0
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2022 10:45 am

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

A lot of drivers save tyres by lifting in faster corners, lift and coast (saves under braking), etc. etc., accelerate more gently or short shift in traction zones, etc. etc. Most of them limit the action to particular corners or zones on the track, e.g. turn 3 at Barcelona, for example - the biggest 'problem' areas.

But just watch Hamilton closely during a race - he varies his lines way more than almost any other driver (very noticeable when following another car - many drivers don't do even that I've noticed!).

What Hamilton does is really interesting. If you watch closely you will see he often does a different thing each lap or each type of corner. So he can drive the same series of corners 3 laps in a row optimised to save the tyre on a different corner each lap. Or he will change which corners he is leaving margin for tyres on from lap to lap. He's continually varying lines, braking points, turn in points, acceleration points lap to lap and so constantly rotating which tyre he is saving. That also extends to giving one tyre an easy time in one corner but then making up the time by pushing hard in a corner that uses the opposite, one for example.

The result is - through this constant rotation of what tyre he is saving and the way in which he's saving it - that he shares out the load (in terms of the 'tire cost' of each bit of lap time) across all the tyres.

User avatar
Big Tea
92
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

mkay wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:55 am
ringo wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:55 am
Whenever they all were on fresh tyres Lewis pace wasnt special.
Once his hard tyres got up to temperature (after 3 laps or so), he was on average 0.5s/lap faster than Sainz and matching Leclerc until the SC was triggered.
Was it not just before this they were told to 'save fuel'? This was not needed after a few safe laps, so is it a false comparison maybe?
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.