2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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diffuser
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Jolle wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:35 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:01 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:37 pm
Checo finding his feet?
'Max Would Have Struggled If He Had Gone To Mercedes Suggests Perez'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c6WW1n41pI

(not what it looks like :mrgreen: )
https://i.imgur.com/FtpVeQ9.png

I get where Perez is coming from, but sorry, Perez, you are very likely to be wrong on that one.

Max is quite adaptive, he went to the RB car and beat Ricciardo to a win in his debut event in the car. He never struggled to adapt to the RB that was built to Ricciardo’s liking at that time. Although Max was being beaten by Ricciardo, and still remains to be Max’s only team mate that max failed to beat in F1.

The reason why everyone struggles Checo, is because RB’s strategy has long since been to push Verstappen to a world title, Max’s feedback is prioritised and the car development is heavily skewed to him. So unless you drive with the same strengths as Max, you won’t adjust swiftly. That is why you and those before you struggled.

If Max had gone to Mercedes, like most drivers, he wouldn’t have struggled at all. The Mercedes is clearly employing a more balanced philosophy of developing the car to both drivers. It has a larger window of driving style input techniques that work with it, so it’s easier to adopt. I also think the team will more willingly build the car to you even if you aren’t the favourite driver.

Now, if Max went to another team that developed their car to 1 driver as much as RB likes to, then that’s a different story, there’s higher probability that he would go through a phase of adapting and getting comfortable with the car. I think he would adapt faster than you though Perez. I think Perez is a solid driver but I wouldn’t put it passed gasly or Albon to have done similar or better than him in the RB16B.
Yeah.. how could Perez know or even suggest that.
Probably more than AeroDynamic knowing the contrary. He atleast drives a F1 car and has changed teams a few times.... Plus the obvious evidence that all the drivers that changed teams in 2021 struggled, atleast for a couple of races.

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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:53 pm
Jolle wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:35 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:01 pm


https://i.imgur.com/FtpVeQ9.png

I get where Perez is coming from, but sorry, Perez, you are very likely to be wrong on that one.

Max is quite adaptive, he went to the RB car and beat Ricciardo to a win in his debut event in the car. He never struggled to adapt to the RB that was built to Ricciardo’s liking at that time. Although Max was being beaten by Ricciardo, and still remains to be Max’s only team mate that max failed to beat in F1.

The reason why everyone struggles Checo, is because RB’s strategy has long since been to push Verstappen to a world title, Max’s feedback is prioritised and the car development is heavily skewed to him. So unless you drive with the same strengths as Max, you won’t adjust swiftly. That is why you and those before you struggled.

If Max had gone to Mercedes, like most drivers, he wouldn’t have struggled at all. The Mercedes is clearly employing a more balanced philosophy of developing the car to both drivers. It has a larger window of driving style input techniques that work with it, so it’s easier to adopt. I also think the team will more willingly build the car to you even if you aren’t the favourite driver.

Now, if Max went to another team that developed their car to 1 driver as much as RB likes to, then that’s a different story, there’s higher probability that he would go through a phase of adapting and getting comfortable with the car. I think he would adapt faster than you though Perez. I think Perez is a solid driver but I wouldn’t put it passed gasly or Albon to have done similar or better than him in the RB16B.
Yeah.. how could Perez know or even suggest that.
Probably more than AeroDynamic knowing the contrary. He atleast drives a F1 car and has changed teams a few times.... Plus the obvious evidence that all the drivers that changed teams in 2021 struggled, atleast for a couple of races.
Yeah i think we have different definitions of ‘struggle’ i think struggle is not succeeding at adapting very well. I.e. Ricciardo.

Alonso adapted just fine. so did Sainz. Vettel’s doing fine. All three adapted and got comfortable and beat their teammates. No struggle.

Perez struggled but so did 2 drivers before him in the RB (like Ricciardo has in the McLaren.

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Ryar
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:53 pm
Jolle wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:35 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:01 pm


https://i.imgur.com/FtpVeQ9.png

I get where Perez is coming from, but sorry, Perez, you are very likely to be wrong on that one.

Max is quite adaptive, he went to the RB car and beat Ricciardo to a win in his debut event in the car. He never struggled to adapt to the RB that was built to Ricciardo’s liking at that time. Although Max was being beaten by Ricciardo, and still remains to be Max’s only team mate that max failed to beat in F1.

The reason why everyone struggles Checo, is because RB’s strategy has long since been to push Verstappen to a world title, Max’s feedback is prioritised and the car development is heavily skewed to him. So unless you drive with the same strengths as Max, you won’t adjust swiftly. That is why you and those before you struggled.

If Max had gone to Mercedes, like most drivers, he wouldn’t have struggled at all. The Mercedes is clearly employing a more balanced philosophy of developing the car to both drivers. It has a larger window of driving style input techniques that work with it, so it’s easier to adopt. I also think the team will more willingly build the car to you even if you aren’t the favourite driver.

Now, if Max went to another team that developed their car to 1 driver as much as RB likes to, then that’s a different story, there’s higher probability that he would go through a phase of adapting and getting comfortable with the car. I think he would adapt faster than you though Perez. I think Perez is a solid driver but I wouldn’t put it passed gasly or Albon to have done similar or better than him in the RB16B.
Yeah.. how could Perez know or even suggest that.
Probably more than AeroDynamic knowing the contrary. He atleast drives a F1 car and has changed teams a few times.... Plus the obvious evidence that all the drivers that changed teams in 2021 struggled, atleast for a couple of races.
Struggle is a relative term. How long a driver would struggle to adapt, determines the quality of the drivers. Some drivers like Alonso (the best of the lot), Lewis and Max have shown in recent times, how adaptable they are when the car isn't really perfect or when they switched cars. Lewis went thorugh a phase of struggle when he arrived at Mercedes, more specifically on the brakes as he was used to, Mclaren stuck Akebono brakes and it was a struggle with Brembo. Every driver would take a while to adjust, but how long, is the question. Ricciardo's struggles for large part of the season last year was a difficult one, to the extent that, he himself had self doubts if he could continue driving, despite McLaren doing everything to help him. Perez is right, Max would have to go through a phase of struggle like Lewis did, but I don't think it would be as long as other drivers like Perez himself, Gasly, Albon or Ricciardo. Max does a lot of different kinds of virtual racing, so that probably helps him to adapt to different demands better.
Hakuna Matata!

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Big Tea
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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AeroDynamic wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:03 pm
diffuser wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:53 pm
Jolle wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:35 pm


Yeah.. how could Perez know or even suggest that.
Probably more than AeroDynamic knowing the contrary. He atleast drives a F1 car and has changed teams a few times.... Plus the obvious evidence that all the drivers that changed teams in 2021 struggled, atleast for a couple of races.
Yeah i think we have different definitions of ‘struggle’ i think struggle is not succeeding at adapting very well. I.e. Ricciardo.

Alonso adapted just fine. so did Sainz. Vettel’s doing fine. All three adapted and got comfortable and beat their teammates. No struggle.

Perez struggled but so did 2 drivers before him in the RB (like Ricciardo has in the McLaren.
As he points out though, it is the difference between the Red Bull and 'other' cars that seems to be the nub, rather than the difference between any two 'other' cars, and the two drivers we noted both concern a move to or from Red Bull. He seems to be saying they are so different it is like a different type of driving (my wording)
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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Zynerji
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Cyril to RB Powertrains?🤣

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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Wouter
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Dan Fallows To Join Aston Martin Cognizant Formula One™ Team on 2 April 2022

Red Bull Technology and Aston Martin Cognizant Formula One™ Team are pleased to announce they have reached an agreement regarding Dan Fallows’ notice period. Dan will join Aston Martin on 2 April 2022 – until then, he remains a Red Bull Technology employee. Dan has been with Red Bull since 2006, most recently as Chief Engineer – Aerodynamics.
Christian Horner, Red Bull Racing’s Team Principal and CEO, said “We would like to thank Dan for his many years of excellent service and wish him well for the future.”
Martin Whitmarsh, Group Chief Executive Officer of Aston Martin Performance Technologies said: “We are pleased to have reached an agreement with Red Bull which releases Dan early from his contract and are looking forward to him joining the team.”
Dan Fallows said “I’ve enjoyed many happy years at Red Bull Racing and am proud of what we achieved. I am looking forward to next season and a new challenge.”
Last edited by Wouter on Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Power of Honda!

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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Big Tea wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:19 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:03 pm
diffuser wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:53 pm


Probably more than AeroDynamic knowing the contrary. He atleast drives a F1 car and has changed teams a few times.... Plus the obvious evidence that all the drivers that changed teams in 2021 struggled, atleast for a couple of races.
Yeah i think we have different definitions of ‘struggle’ i think struggle is not succeeding at adapting very well. I.e. Ricciardo.

Alonso adapted just fine. so did Sainz. Vettel’s doing fine. All three adapted and got comfortable and beat their teammates. No struggle.

Perez struggled but so did 2 drivers before him in the RB (like Ricciardo has in the McLaren.
As he points out though, it is the difference between the Red Bull and 'other' cars that seems to be the nub, rather than the difference between any two 'other' cars, and the two drivers we noted both concern a move to or from Red Bull. He seems to be saying they are so different it is like a different type of driving (my wording)
Ricciardo did fine going to Renault, so I don’t think it’s a given that RB is so different that drivers become conditioned to it and struggle when adjusting to or from the RB. I just don’t think it’s a grounded assumption to say Max would struggle going to a Mercedes. If he means Max would have to adapt, then of course. You always adapt to change. But struggle to make it work is a different story. I think Perez is projecting.

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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Wouter wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:59 pm
Statement: Dan Fallows To Join Aston Martin Cognizant Formula One™ Team on 2 April 2022

https://www.redbullracing.com/int-en/da ... -cognizant

So, either his contract did have a viable hole, or, AM paid out a big compensation because Stroll does seem to be on a mission to achieve asap.

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diffuser
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Ryar wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:04 pm
diffuser wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:53 pm
Jolle wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:35 pm


Yeah.. how could Perez know or even suggest that.
Probably more than AeroDynamic knowing the contrary. He atleast drives a F1 car and has changed teams a few times.... Plus the obvious evidence that all the drivers that changed teams in 2021 struggled, atleast for a couple of races.
Struggle is a relative term. How long a driver would struggle to adapt, determines the quality of the drivers. Some drivers like Alonso (the best of the lot), Lewis and Max have shown in recent times, how adaptable they are when the car isn't really perfect or when they switched cars. Lewis went thorugh a phase of struggle when he arrived at Mercedes, more specifically on the brakes as he was used to, Mclaren stuck Akebono brakes and it was a struggle with Brembo. Every driver would take a while to adjust, but how long, is the question. Ricciardo's struggles for large part of the season last year was a difficult one, to the extent that, he himself had self doubts if he could continue driving, despite McLaren doing everything to help him. Perez is right, Max would have to go through a phase of struggle like Lewis did, but I don't think it would be as long as other drivers like Perez himself, Gasly, Albon or Ricciardo. Max does a lot of different kinds of virtual racing, so that probably helps him to adapt to different demands better.
Perez didn't elaborate on how long Max would have Struggled, if he would have struggled more or less than other drivers, just that he would have struggled. So anywhere from 1 race to 21.

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diffuser
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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AeroDynamic wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:01 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:19 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:03 pm


Yeah i think we have different definitions of ‘struggle’ i think struggle is not succeeding at adapting very well. I.e. Ricciardo.

Alonso adapted just fine. so did Sainz. Vettel’s doing fine. All three adapted and got comfortable and beat their teammates. No struggle.

Perez struggled but so did 2 drivers before him in the RB (like Ricciardo has in the McLaren.
As he points out though, it is the difference between the Red Bull and 'other' cars that seems to be the nub, rather than the difference between any two 'other' cars, and the two drivers we noted both concern a move to or from Red Bull. He seems to be saying they are so different it is like a different type of driving (my wording)
Ricciardo did fine going to Renault, so I don’t think it’s a given that RB is so different that drivers become conditioned to it and struggle when adjusting to or from the RB. I just don’t think it’s a grounded assumption to say Max would struggle going to a Mercedes. If he means Max would have to adapt, then of course. You always adapt to change. But struggle to make it work is a different story. I think Perez is projecting.

Didn't change PUs

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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:18 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:01 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:19 pm


As he points out though, it is the difference between the Red Bull and 'other' cars that seems to be the nub, rather than the difference between any two 'other' cars, and the two drivers we noted both concern a move to or from Red Bull. He seems to be saying they are so different it is like a different type of driving (my wording)
Ricciardo did fine going to Renault, so I don’t think it’s a given that RB is so different that drivers become conditioned to it and struggle when adjusting to or from the RB. I just don’t think it’s a grounded assumption to say Max would struggle going to a Mercedes. If he means Max would have to adapt, then of course. You always adapt to change. But struggle to make it work is a different story. I think Perez is projecting.

Didn't change PUs
Neither did Albon or Gasly though when they moved up to RB, but it didn’t make it easy. Perez is making assumptions the struggle is more down to changing car and engine, than it is to drive a very specific car at RB. Every driver has a period of time adapting to a new car, there’s a challenge to change and adapt - normal. For me, Struggling is when it’s taking you so long or that you can’t get very competitive, and that the problem is bigger than change, it’s you. The reason Perez is even talking about this and coming out with this narrative, is because it’s taking him longer than his 5-race target to get very competitive with the RB, and he’s still struggling. If he thinks Max would struggle at Mercedes, that’s his opinion but I think it’s unfounded.

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nzjrs
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Is it a surprise to anyone that in order to function at 100% drivers have to believe they are the best in the world and it is only the machine that keeps them from being WDC?

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diffuser
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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AeroDynamic wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:36 pm
diffuser wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:18 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:01 pm


Ricciardo did fine going to Renault, so I don’t think it’s a given that RB is so different that drivers become conditioned to it and struggle when adjusting to or from the RB. I just don’t think it’s a grounded assumption to say Max would struggle going to a Mercedes. If he means Max would have to adapt, then of course. You always adapt to change. But struggle to make it work is a different story. I think Perez is projecting.

Didn't change PUs
Neither did Albon or Gasly though when they moved up to RB, but it didn’t make it easy. Perez is making assumptions the struggle is more down to changing car and engine, than it is to drive a very specific car at RB. Every driver has a period of time adapting to a new car, there’s a challenge to change and adapt - normal. For me, Struggling is when it’s taking you so long or that you can’t get very competitive, and that the problem is bigger than change, it’s you. The reason Perez is even talking about this and coming out with this narrative, is because it’s taking him longer than his 5-race target to get very competitive with the RB, and he’s still struggling. If he thinks Max would struggle at Mercedes, that’s his opinion but I think it’s unfounded.

I didn't read it like that. I read it that he would have struggled for a certain number of races. As Alonso did (for example).

The YouTube video starts off as follows "In recent years when drivers have changed teams they’ve tended to struggle, especially during the first few races . Sergio Perez went through that last year. He’s now explained to motor sport magazine why other drivers including his teammate would fair the same way."
Last edited by diffuser on Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Tizz
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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AeroDynamic wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:36 pm
diffuser wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:18 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:01 pm


Ricciardo did fine going to Renault, so I don’t think it’s a given that RB is so different that drivers become conditioned to it and struggle when adjusting to or from the RB. I just don’t think it’s a grounded assumption to say Max would struggle going to a Mercedes. If he means Max would have to adapt, then of course. You always adapt to change. But struggle to make it work is a different story. I think Perez is projecting.

Didn't change PUs
Neither did Albon or Gasly though when they moved up to RB, but it didn’t make it easy. Perez is making assumptions the struggle is more down to changing car and engine, than it is to drive a very specific car at RB. Every driver has a period of time adapting to a new car, there’s a challenge to change and adapt - normal. For me, Struggling is when it’s taking you so long or that you can’t get very competitive, and that the problem is bigger than change, it’s you. The reason Perez is even talking about this and coming out with this narrative, is because it’s taking him longer than his 5-race target to get very competitive with the RB, and he’s still struggling. If he thinks Max would struggle at Mercedes, that’s his opinion but I think it’s unfounded.
There really is no news , is there ? Toto's bloodpressure is still through the roof but we can't wait untill the start of next season when there is real news... :D