2022 Alpine F1 Team

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JPower
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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Mogster wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:21 pm

That’s pretty much the way I see it. Alpine have paid for Piastri’s FIA F3 and F2 seasons, have given him extensive testing in 3 year old cars. They’ve invested plenty of time and money in his career. So why shouldn’t they have a say in his near future, why not drive for Williams in 2023? It seems petulant and could backfire massively if Piastri doesn’t at least come close to matching Norris next year.

Of corse there may be more to this saga that’s yet to be revealed…
How does being beat by one of the best drivers in F1 backfire on him? That's a level to strive to for Piastri.

I seriously doubt McLaren expects him to match Norris 1st year out. If he does, that's a bonus.

As for Alpine's investment, we have no clue what he was promised within what timeframe. Its very possible they told him he'd be in at Alpine in 2023 and found them courting Alonso instead.

Enstone
Enstone
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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JPower wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:14 pm
If you're Alpine, who do you offer the 2 year contract to: Gasly or Ricciardo?

Let's say Gasly wants $5-7million and Ricciardo is asking $10-12million.

Otmar would have to convince Ocon of the former, and Luca de Meo of the latter.
Ricciardo was a good choice and a really talented driver... before he left Renalpine !
Now i can't ask what he want when you look at his performances, if he ask too much i will end up in FE :D

Gasly has way more potential, younger, french and also a GP winner !
Go Ricci !

JPower
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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Enstone wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:39 pm
JPower wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:14 pm
If you're Alpine, who do you offer the 2 year contract to: Gasly or Ricciardo?

Let's say Gasly wants $5-7million and Ricciardo is asking $10-12million.

Otmar would have to convince Ocon of the former, and Luca de Meo of the latter.
Ricciardo was a good choice and a really talented driver... before he left Renalpine !
Now i can't ask what he want when you look at his performances, if he ask too much i will end up in FE :D

Gasly has way more potential, younger, french and also a GP winner !
I agree.

I think Gasly would be the bigger splash for Alpine. Something new and exciting. Having an all-French lineup wouldn’t hurt either.

Going back to Ricciardo just seems like a hire you would make because you’re in a bind and can’t find anyone else.

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djos
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:18 pm
selvam_e2002 wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:03 pm
Ottmar is a team destroyer. He will do the best to destroy Alpine and Renault will pull over from F1 and only supply engine to Andriti.
Huh? You have to explain that one! He worked wonders at Force India/Racing Point.
That post reminds me why he is on my ignore list.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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F1since1980 wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:55 pm
But I would think what was good for George Russell (didn't have much choice), should also be good for Oscar no harm in that seat
I'm sure Piastri would have been more than happy to drive for Williams in 2022 and move to Alpine or McLaren in 2023. Piastri had, however, stated a preference to not be stuck at the back of the grid as long as Russell was which is also perfectly reasonable.

For a delayed 2023 debut however, a McLaren debut is clearly superior to Williams -- incidentally the same as Norris and many others (Vandoorne, Magnussen, Hamilton).

Notwithstanding the strangeness of an Alpine 2023 debut being withheld as in the past Alpine was more than happy to debut rookies (Palmer, Petrov, Piquet, Kovalainen), yet now Piastri is apparently not good enough to debut at Alpine. On this matter, Alpine had **eight months** to confirm Piastri as their 2023 Alpine driver and did nothing. :wtf:

Mogster wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:21 pm
So why shouldn’t they have a say in his near future, why not drive for Williams in 2023?
Even with Piastri's Williams drive being delayed to 2023 instead of 2022, a 2024 Alpine was still not guaranteed as Otmar had stated every intention of extending Alonso if he was still driving well. On this basis, a guaranteed 2023-2024 McLaren drive is clearly superior to a 2023 Williams with an unguaranteed 2024 Alpine drive. This appears to be clear and simple reason as to why not drive for Williams in 2023.

A Williams (or Alfa Romeo or HAAS) drive for 2022 and move to Alpine for 2023 would indeed have been far more attractive, but this was not offered by Alpine sadly. Even so, Alpine had a late chance to fix their error so it was very strange indeed to see that Alpine made no efforts or monetary offers for Piastri to secure the seat vacated by Nikita Mazepin as late as pre-season testing... :wtf:

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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Great interview featuring Otmar. Lots of things revealed.

https://www.elconfidencial.com/deportes ... arioManual
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F1since1980
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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JordanMugen wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:34 am
F1since1980 wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:55 pm
But I would think what was good for George Russell (didn't have much choice), should also be good for Oscar no harm in that seat
I'm sure Piastri would have been more than happy to drive for Williams in 2022 and move to Alpine or McLaren in 2023. Piastri had, however, stated a preference to not be stuck at the back of the grid as long as Russell was which is also perfectly reasonable.

For a delayed 2023 debut however, a McLaren debut is clearly superior to Williams -- incidentally the same as Norris and many others (Vandoorne, Magnussen, Hamilton).

Notwithstanding the strangeness of an Alpine 2023 debut being withheld as in the past Alpine was more than happy to debut rookies (Palmer, Petrov, Piquet, Kovalainen), yet now Piastri is apparently not good enough to debut at Alpine. On this matter, Alpine had **eight months** to confirm Piastri as their 2023 Alpine driver and did nothing. :wtf:

Mogster wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:21 pm
So why shouldn’t they have a say in his near future, why not drive for Williams in 2023?
Even with Piastri's Williams drive being delayed to 2023 instead of 2022, a 2024 Alpine was still not guaranteed as Otmar had stated every intention of extending Alonso if he was still driving well. On this basis, a guaranteed 2023-2024 McLaren drive is clearly superior to a 2023 Williams with an unguaranteed 2024 Alpine drive. This appears to be clear and simple reason as to why not drive for Williams in 2023.

A Williams (or Alfa Romeo or HAAS) drive for 2022 and move to Alpine for 2023 would indeed have been far more attractive, but this was not offered by Alpine sadly. Even so, Alpine had a late chance to fix their error so it was very strange indeed to see that Alpine made no efforts or monetary offers for Piastri to secure the seat vacated by Nikita Mazepin as late as pre-season testing... :wtf:
Good analysis - makes a lot of sense, good stuff!

I guess for me it also comes back to the fact that they needed a B team or should not have signed Alonso two years ago, knowing this kid was up and coming, or who knows... tough call, seems to be almost an impossible situation at times.

I personally think that how this "driver drama" has played out so far with Alpine being the loser in this - should things stand as they are and as we wait for official confirmations - is a brilliant case of never underestimate your immediate competition. Alpine had two pretty incredible drivers under its control and held all the cards. Management should have followed more closely what was happening both with Vettel at AM and especially Daniel's situation at Mclaren. That's your immediate competition! Despite what was being said in the press by Daniel and Zak, it was obvious to most that Zak was desperate to move on from him for next year and Oscar has a lot of talent and ambition and is Australia's next great hope, so of course he wants, and Webber wants the best opportunity for 2023.

I guess you need a certain degree of major paranoia when it comes to defending your team's interest especially if you are a mid-field team battling it out with the likes of Mclaren and AM - Have a few sleepless nights and try to anticipate their next move! Alpine got royally played and it showed its lack of experience in this master game of chess that is Formula 1. If you can't beat them on the track with a better car, make sure you find a way to destabilize their momentum, moral and greatest assets - take away its best drivers and engineers. Well played by AM and Mclaren - Stroll, Zak and probably Briatore and Webber. A learning experience for Alpine.

I need a break from all this drama and go on a vacation! :D

PhillipM
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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Hamilton is one of the most adaptable drivers on the grid, it's why he so incredible with tyre management. Struggling with extreme setups at the start of the year is meaningless when you can bet if they set anyone else up on that it'd be in the wall every other session.

Fulcrum
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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djos wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:13 am
RS200E wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:56 pm
Mateo wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:03 pm
It must be genetic because the Australians have a lot of trouble respecting the contracts they sign with the French
It must be a thing because all the Australians do on this site is comment on other Australians. There has been slightly less blind faith in Ricciardo now that another Australian might get the other seat. Disgusting really. They don't know what to say now. Faith in a has been or faith in an unknown.
As opposed to the mob here that write Daniel off because me made the mistake of joining a team who’s car has “unique” handling characteristics that don’t inspire confidence?

Put Hamilton in the Mclaren’s and you’d see him bitch and moan like he was earlier this year - compare that to Daniel who has been all class, never said a bad word about the team or car and always done his best to improve himself.
The 'mob', as you so politely describe them, are simply pointing out that Ricciardo is getting beaten by Norris, and are largely responding to your entirely myopic defense based on increasingly marginal justifications.

At some point the excuses begin to wear thin. Its the car, the tyres, the strategy, reliability, the management, etc...

Who cares?

This is a results-based business and Ricciardo is not generating the results - particularly not as was expected based on his reputation. Reputations can be unmade. Look at Raikkonen. Kicked Schumacher out of Ferrari, only to be paid to not drive there when he wasn't as good as initially thought. This only became more self-evident when paired with Alonso and Vettel.

2014 was almost a decade ago, yet every few posts we hear how "Ricciardo destroyed Vettel" as if this happened last race. Based on his payscale, he needed to destroy Norris. Instead, Norris has dug his grave, and we're waiting to see if Ricciardo buries himself, or needs a push.

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:52 pm
Great interview featuring Otmar. Lots of things revealed.

https://www.elconfidencial.com/deportes ... arioManual
After reading the whole interview, my conclusion is they got asleep

He claims they were expecting some loyalty from Piastri. When a business man argue loyalty, its because he didn´t do his job and there´s no valid contract signed in #-o


About Alonso, nothing new, Alpine always said they will only offer a 1+1 contract, while Alonso always said he was after a multi-year contract without conditions, so if both parts disagree, it should not be a surprise when the relationship is finished

PhillipM
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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djos wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:33 am
That must be why he got beaten handily by George for most of the season to date.
Yes, because they weren't both on completely different setups :wtf:

politburo
politburo
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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Ocon and Ricciardo are actually at a similar level, with respect to their esteemed teammates at least. I really fear this team may be going backwards even if their car is good, if they end up having two drivers who can't maximise the raw pace of the car in qualifying or to even get the car close to the front in wet conditions how Alonso has done.
"Nosotros diferimos, pero nosotros todos son iguales"

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ringo
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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Alpine will be fine. They will have a very good csr next year. Alonso leaving is the omen.

Otmar's clarity:
“We have a contract with Piastri, which he signed in November,” the Alpine boss told El Confidencial. “We have spoken to our lawyers and they have told us that this is a binding contract, so part of that contract allows us to put Oscar in one of our cars in 2023, which is the reason we issued the press release.

“There is also an option for 2024 and the possibility for us to ‘loan’ the driver to another team. We wanted Fernando with us for one more year and then a ‘loan’ of Oscar for 2023.

“I have always said in all my press conferences that Piastri would be in Formula 1 in 2023 and it is because I knew he could be in our car or in another car, on loan, if Fernando had stayed.

“But Alonso, for whatever reason – and I think I know the reasons, although you should ask him – he goes to Aston Martin. So, we started to finalise the agreement with Piastri, and instead of giving him away, we decided to put him in our car. Hence, the statement.”
For Sure!!

politburo
politburo
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:54 pm
Alpine will be fine. They will have a very good csr next year. Alonso leaving is the omen.

Otmar's clarity:
“We have a contract with Piastri, which he signed in November,” the Alpine boss told El Confidencial. “We have spoken to our lawyers and they have told us that this is a binding contract, so part of that contract allows us to put Oscar in one of our cars in 2023, which is the reason we issued the press release.

“There is also an option for 2024 and the possibility for us to ‘loan’ the driver to another team. We wanted Fernando with us for one more year and then a ‘loan’ of Oscar for 2023.

“I have always said in all my press conferences that Piastri would be in Formula 1 in 2023 and it is because I knew he could be in our car or in another car, on loan, if Fernando had stayed.

“But Alonso, for whatever reason – and I think I know the reasons, although you should ask him – he goes to Aston Martin. So, we started to finalise the agreement with Piastri, and instead of giving him away, we decided to put him in our car. Hence, the statement.”
Alonso outqualifies Ocon almost as badly as Verstappen outqualifies Perez, in terms of all metrics - supertimes and average qualifying position, and arguably the gap in points should be just as comprable given the unique situation of Alonso losing points due to reliability and engine penalties which his teammate has had none.
"Nosotros diferimos, pero nosotros todos son iguales"

politburo
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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And how can you just confidently assert they'll have a very good car, we all thought from last year coming into this year and look where they are, Ocon is there fighting Magnussen and Bottas and Ricciardo just to sniff Q3, even tho Alonso has been awesome he is like 6 tenths off pole as the benchmark of that car and in the races they're finishing 40, 50 seconds back.
"Nosotros diferimos, pero nosotros todos son iguales"