2022 Alpine F1 Team

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djos
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:32 am
djos wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:27 am
The whole issue with Alpine is that they made lots of noises about looking after Oscar, but when the rubber hit the road, they gave him nothing. They made it perfectly clear they wanted to keep Alonso.
No i think you overlook what Rossi said.
Alpine was delivering what Oscar agrees to in November 2021. They did everything he agrees to, the 3500km, the willaims deal etc.
Did he express dissatisfaction to them? No he did not. He was getting what he agreed to.
At what stage did he feel Alpine lied?
The answer is none. Because they did not sign a HOA for him to be a driver in 2022 or 2023.
So no lies told and no promises broken.
Now he gets a 2023 alpine drive and must feel dumb for signing for Mclaren to get dismantled by Norris in 2023.
Honestly Ringo, Alpine under Rossi seem to be a real basket case. He’s clearly not the right man to be running the team IMO, especially when you consider his background and what he’s done since taking over.

Yes he’s hired a couple of good ppl (eg Otmar), but pushing out quality ppl like Marcin and Alain is just stupid!

The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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ringo
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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I think Alpine is improving. Changes have to be made. Time will tell if the changers were tge right decisions.
I do think next year's success is highly dependent on that second driver. I would go with experience. If they feel 4th is the best they can do for 2023 then a good rookie isnt too bad. But that rookie must have imoroved enough by 2024 if the team have bigger ambitions.
Gasly is the best choice i find. The others like Doohan etc etc i am indifferent to.
For Sure!!

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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Speedcafe.com understands an announcement could come as early as Tuesday confirming Pierre Gasly’s arrival at the [Alpine] squad. Gasly was contracted with Red Bull for next season, though an eight-figure buy-out figure was negotiated on that deal.
https://www.speedcafe.com/2022/09/30/al ... -for-2023/

Between 500,000EUR for the baseless CRB case and 10,000,000 EUR to secure Gasly replacing Alonso and Piastri has been an expensive exercise for Alpine F1 Team, but it seems Alpine will have their two French drivers in the end. :)

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Zynerji
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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JordanMugen wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:11 am
Speedcafe.com understands an announcement could come as early as Tuesday confirming Pierre Gasly’s arrival at the [Alpine] squad. Gasly was contracted with Red Bull for next season, though an eight-figure buy-out figure was negotiated on that deal.
https://www.speedcafe.com/2022/09/30/al ... -for-2023/

Between 500,000EUR for the baseless CRB case and 10,000,000 EUR to secure Gasly replacing Alonso and Piastri has been an expensive exercise for Alpine F1 Team, but it seems Alpine will have their two French drivers in the end. :)
This was always going to happen. It was pre-ordained.

I just hope they find some success with their French themed Team.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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8 figures????

:wtf:

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 5:03 am
8 figures????

:wtf:
Yes, 8 figures (reportedly). Helmut Marko will be laughing all the way to the bank, what a pay day! :lol:

AlphaTauri can bring in de Vries or another on the cheap, and Gasly was never going back to Red Bull anyway. Quite the profitable outcome for AlphaTauri! :)

Alpine must rate Pierre Gasly very highly indeed.

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:37 am
Piastri has no training in Mclaren equipment. He will be a deer in the headlights. Alpine will hold him as long as possible before they let him go to get familiar with mclaren team and culturr and car. He is being thrown into the deep end.
Lando will destroy him.
If you assume Piastri is such a poor driver he´ll be destroyed by Lando, then it doesn´t matter what team he´s at, his career will be quite short anycase

OTOH if he´s more or less as good as they´ve been claiming, and can fight Lando with a McLaren at the end of the season, top teams will focus on Piastri much more than if he´s beating Latifi on a Williams


It´s a matter of confidence, you can´t rely on Piastri so you think he´d be better on a Williams, Piastri himself and many of us think he can be good enough for McLaren. If he´s wrong and you´re right he´ll be destroyed, but it´s his career and his bet, as stated, time will tell

ringo wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:37 am
Hamilton was an extremely special case. We have never seen a driver like that since.
Maybe this name tell you something.... Max Verstappen :P

Ok Lewis and Max are not the average, but Piastri has been rated so high by all parts I can see why he think he can do good at McLaren. McLaren is 4-5th team anycase, not 1-2nd, so he does not need to be as good as Max or Lewis, only better than Lando, who was beaten by Sainz and Carlos is not a top class, so I don´t think this is such a risky bet for Piastri. If he´s close to the talented guy most people has been claiming, he should be able to fight Lando.

If he´s not able to fight Norris, all the rest is irrelevant, his F1 career will be short anycase

ringo wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:37 am
I do not think Piastri is that guy.
That´s perfectly clear for all of us now, but please reply this question...
Do you think any driver from any F1 era will keep on the 10th team of the grid when he can sign in with 4-5th team?

Your only argument to criticize this move is you think he´s not good enough for McLaren. Ok, but all drivers think they´re good enough for Mercedes and RBR. Few are correct, but that is perfectly normal, if they fail, they fail, but that is exactly what any driver is looking for, an opportunity on a good team

basti313
basti313
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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djos wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:32 am
Honestly Ringo, Alpine under Rossi seem to be a real basket case. He’s clearly not the right man to be running the team IMO, especially when you consider his background and what he’s done since taking over.

Yes he’s hired a couple of good ppl (eg Otmar), but pushing out quality ppl like Marcin and Alain is just stupid!
Rossi is a very, very classic French manager. And also very, very classic career with an MBA and then the consulting...I had these managers, I was working with them.
I do not think this usual type of management can work in F1 on the long term. Completely different from the success story of Merc for example.
Andres125sx wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:15 am
ringo wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:37 am
Piastri has no training in Mclaren equipment. He will be a deer in the headlights. Alpine will hold him as long as possible before they let him go to get familiar with mclaren team and culturr and car. He is being thrown into the deep end.
Lando will destroy him.
If you assume Piastri is such a poor driver he´ll be destroyed by Lando, then it doesn´t matter what team he´s at, his career will be quite short anycase
I do not see a chance to be honest, same story as Ricciardo and also fitting the Ham and Ver story:
- Both Ham and Ver knew the car inside out. They were driving it in tests or they were driving the sim over years joining the development. Verstappen had the AlphaTauri which was very similar in 2015 to the RB11. They had similar or more miles on the track as the driver whom they joined.
- On the other hand we saw two moves lately where although there was a rule change, the driver who joined "cold" is struggling...Vettel and Ricciardo...maybe even add Perez.

That Piastri will beat Lando....in a car that he does not know, with a different engine after not driving for a year? Hmmm....
Andres125sx wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:15 am
That´s perfectly clear for all of us now, but please reply this question...
Do you think any driver from any F1 era will keep on the 10th team of the grid when he can sign in with 4-5th team?

Your only argument to criticize this move is you think he´s not good enough for McLaren. Ok, but all drivers think they´re good enough for Mercedes and RBR. Few are correct, but that is perfectly normal, if they fail, they fail, but that is exactly what any driver is looking for, an opportunity on a good team
I think the bet is good. Alpine is profiting from being a works team now. McLaren is struggling on not being a works team. On the long run McLaren will be stronger.
BUT as before...in Alpine he can destroy Ocon. At Williams this would be super difficult as well...similar to McLaren.

So I 100% understand that:
- He did not want to go to Willi, biggest risk he can take for his career.
- He wanted to go rather to McLaren and struggle with Lando on a competitive basis than maybe loosing out at Williams at the end of the field.
- He did not have the free Alpine seat on his view.

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diffuser
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Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

Post

djos wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:32 am
ringo wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:32 am
djos wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:27 am
The whole issue with Alpine is that they made lots of noises about looking after Oscar, but when the rubber hit the road, they gave him nothing. They made it perfectly clear they wanted to keep Alonso.
No i think you overlook what Rossi said.
Alpine was delivering what Oscar agrees to in November 2021. They did everything he agrees to, the 3500km, the willaims deal etc.
Did he express dissatisfaction to them? No he did not. He was getting what he agreed to.
At what stage did he feel Alpine lied?
The answer is none. Because they did not sign a HOA for him to be a driver in 2022 or 2023.
So no lies told and no promises broken.
Now he gets a 2023 alpine drive and must feel dumb for signing for Mclaren to get dismantled by Norris in 2023.
Honestly Ringo, Alpine under Rossi seem to be a real basket case. He’s clearly not the right man to be running the team IMO, especially when you consider his background and what he’s done since taking over.

Yes he’s hired a couple of good ppl (eg Otmar), but pushing out quality ppl like Marcin and Alain is just stupid!

What do you base all that on ?

Nobody at Alpine cares that he canned those 2. They might care that they lost Piastri but if they sign Gasly, they'll forget that too for a few years. If Piastri ever drives like Lando (IF he ever does), they might care then too(in a bad way for Rossi). All they care about is where they finish in the constructors cause that brings in more money, the higher they finish. If Alpine drop to 6th next year, depending on the circumstances, his job maybe in jeopardy. Until then, you're wasting your breath.

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djos
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Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 5:09 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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I guess I just don’t see why he’d want to sideline Alain Prost and turn him into nothing more than a team mascot.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:22 am

Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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All that’s going to happen next season is that every good performance of Ocon or Gasly, one will wonder where the extra 1-2 tenths of Alonso would have placed the car. Especially if Alpine are nipping at the heels of Mercedes.

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diffuser
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Location: Montreal

Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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djos wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:12 am
I guess I just don’t see why he’d want to sideline Alain Prost and turn him into nothing more than a team mascot.
Well obviously he didn't take much value in his opinion.

I lost alot of respect for Prost when he shat all over Rossi for demoting him. His opinion didn't help Rossi's predecessor's keep his job.
Last edited by diffuser on Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:04 am
djos wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:12 am
I guess I just don’t see why he’d want to sideline Alain Prost and turn him into nothing more than a team mascot.
Well obviously he didn't take much value in his opinion.

I lost alot of rest for Prost when he shat all over Rossi for demoting him. His opinion didn't help Rossi's predecessor's keep his job.
Those guys getting fired had nothing to do with Prost. These guys were all scheduled to be sacked. Rossi thought best not to do it all at once. So first Cyril. Taffin knew of his sacking up to a year in advance. Budkowshi and Prost were the last ones to go.

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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basti313 wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:15 am

I do not see a chance to be honest, same story as Ricciardo and also fitting the Ham and Ver story:
- Both Ham and Ver knew the car inside out. They were driving it in tests or they were driving the sim over years joining the development. Verstappen had the AlphaTauri which was very similar in 2015 to the RB11. They had similar or more miles on the track as the driver whom they joined.
- On the other hand we saw two moves lately where although there was a rule change, the driver who joined "cold" is struggling...Vettel and Ricciardo...maybe even add Perez.

That Piastri will beat Lando....in a car that he does not know, with a different engine after not driving for a year? Hmmm....

When I said "if he can beat Lando at the end of the season" I didn´t mean beating lando in the scoreboard, but fighting him in last third of the season, once he´s used to the car.


F1 teams know all this much better than us, people is assuming since he has no experience, no test time, and is new to McLaren, he will not perform and McLaren will fire him, when McLaren knows all this much better than any of us.

At the start of the season, Perez struggled with the RBR, Vettel with the AM, Alonso with the Alpine, Sainz with the Ferrari... did any of those teams fired any of those seasoned drivers? Obviously not, so no reason to assume they´ll be even more demanding with a rookie

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diffuser
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Location: Montreal

Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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basti313 wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:15 am
djos wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:32 am
Honestly Ringo, Alpine under Rossi seem to be a real basket case. He’s clearly not the right man to be running the team IMO, especially when you consider his background and what he’s done since taking over.

Yes he’s hired a couple of good ppl (eg Otmar), but pushing out quality ppl like Marcin and Alain is just stupid!
Rossi is a very, very classic French manager. And also very, very classic career with an MBA and then the consulting...I had these managers, I was working with them.
I do not think this usual type of management can work in F1 on the long term. Completely different from the success story of Merc for example.
Andres125sx wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:15 am
ringo wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:37 am
Piastri has no training in Mclaren equipment. He will be a deer in the headlights. Alpine will hold him as long as possible before they let him go to get familiar with mclaren team and culturr and car. He is being thrown into the deep end.
Lando will destroy him.
If you assume Piastri is such a poor driver he´ll be destroyed by Lando, then it doesn´t matter what team he´s at, his career will be quite short anycase
I do not see a chance to be honest, same story as Ricciardo and also fitting the Ham and Ver story:
- Both Ham and Ver knew the car inside out. They were driving it in tests or they were driving the sim over years joining the development. Verstappen had the AlphaTauri which was very similar in 2015 to the RB11. They had similar or more miles on the track as the driver whom they joined.
- On the other hand we saw two moves lately where although there was a rule change, the driver who joined "cold" is struggling...Vettel and Ricciardo...maybe even add Perez.

That Piastri will beat Lando....in a car that he does not know, with a different engine after not driving for a year? Hmmm....
Andres125sx wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:15 am
That´s perfectly clear for all of us now, but please reply this question...
Do you think any driver from any F1 era will keep on the 10th team of the grid when he can sign in with 4-5th team?

Your only argument to criticize this move is you think he´s not good enough for McLaren. Ok, but all drivers think they´re good enough for Mercedes and RBR. Few are correct, but that is perfectly normal, if they fail, they fail, but that is exactly what any driver is looking for, an opportunity on a good team
I think the bet is good. Alpine is profiting from being a works team now. McLaren is struggling on not being a works team. On the long run McLaren will be stronger.
BUT as before...in Alpine he can destroy Ocon. At Williams this would be super difficult as well...similar to McLaren.

So I 100% understand that:
- He did not want to go to Willi, biggest risk he can take for his career.
- He wanted to go rather to McLaren and struggle with Lando on a competitive basis than maybe loosing out at Williams at the end of the field.
- He did not have the free Alpine seat on his view.
So tell me, since the Merc PU hasn't changed shape in the last 3 years, how is that hurting McLaren?