All kinds of news about F1.

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
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AeroDynamic
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was it JUST Horner who said that 'any don't mean all' line or did the stewards use that in their decision upon Mercedes protest in AD?

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dans79
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They basically made an already idiot proof rule even more idiot proof!
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dans79
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AeroDynamic wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:17 pm
was it JUST Horner who said that 'any don't mean all' line or did the stewards use that in their decision upon Mercedes protest in AD?
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... _48.12.pdf
Red Bull argued that
1. “Any” does not mean “all”.
2. The Article 48.13 of the Sporting Regulations states that the message “Safety Car in this
lap” is the signal that it will enter the pit lane at the end of that lap.
3. That therefore Article 48.13 “overrides” Article 48.12.
4. That Article 15.3 gives the Race Director “overriding authority” over “the use of the safety
car”.
5. That even if all cars that had been lapped (8 in total, of which 5 were allowed to overtake
the safety car) it would not have changed the outcome of the race.
I still don't even know why Redbull needed to be there, they weren't being protested!
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AeroDynamic
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So, independent of a publicly published Abu Dhabi investigation report.. the little but very relevant update to the rules pertaining to any or all cars unlapping.. and the safety car having to come in at the end of the following lap, seems to imply that Masi broke their regulations to give max the opportunity he had no right to, in their view.

f---ing Jonathan Wheatley.

izzy
izzy
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AeroDynamic wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:23 pm
So, independent of a publicly published Abu Dhabi investigation report.. the little but very relevant update to the rules pertaining to any or all cars unlapping.. and the safety car having to come in at the end of the following lap, seems to imply that Masi broke their regulations to give max the opportunity he had no right to, in their view.

f---ing Jonathan Wheatley.
Well, Michael Masi obviously isn't the hardest tough guy out there is he, but he says 'no' to teams all the time, it's just not likely he'd make that change of decision for Red Bull's sake is it?

DChemTech
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AeroDynamic wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:23 pm
So, independent of a publicly published Abu Dhabi investigation report.. the little but very relevant update to the rules pertaining to any or all cars unlapping.. and the safety car having to come in at the end of the following lap, seems to imply that Masi broke their regulations to give max the opportunity he had no right to, in their view.

f---ing Jonathan Wheatley.
And here we go again. Blaming wheatley for a decision that was not his, and for doing something that every team was doing, mercedes included. Stop it.

KeiKo403
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Have the FIA said if these are to be taken as ‘changes to the rules’ or ‘clarifications of the rules’

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AeroDynamic
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DChemTech wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 9:06 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:23 pm
So, independent of a publicly published Abu Dhabi investigation report.. the little but very relevant update to the rules pertaining to any or all cars unlapping.. and the safety car having to come in at the end of the following lap, seems to imply that Masi broke their regulations to give max the opportunity he had no right to, in their view.

f---ing Jonathan Wheatley.
And here we go again. Blaming wheatley for a decision that was not his, and for doing something that every team was doing, mercedes included. Stop it.
We already shared our viewpoints with one another. You're not changing mine and im not changing yours. So stop it.
izzy wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:45 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:23 pm
So, independent of a publicly published Abu Dhabi investigation report.. the little but very relevant update to the rules pertaining to any or all cars unlapping.. and the safety car having to come in at the end of the following lap, seems to imply that Masi broke their regulations to give max the opportunity he had no right to, in their view.

f---ing Jonathan Wheatley.
Well, Michael Masi obviously isn't the hardest tough guy out there is he, but he says 'no' to teams all the time, it's just not likely he'd make that change of decision for Red Bull's sake is it?

its clear for me, he recycled the sentiment he got from Wheatley about 'motor racing'. After Wheatley and Horner aggressively lobbied him to get them racing again, telling him how to do it and whats to be done. He caved. They succeeded in pressuring him into a mistake. the FIA introduced changes and fired him and Horner and Max are the ones that feel so bad for Michael.

izzy
izzy
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AeroDynamic wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:38 pm
its clear for me, he recycled the sentiment he got from Wheatley about 'motor racing'. After Wheatley and Horner aggressively lobbied him to get them racing again, telling him how to do it and whats to be done. He caved. They succeeded in pressuring him into a mistake. the FIA introduced changes and fired him and Horner and Max are the ones that feel so bad for Michael.
He did use the words didn't he, but he he needed words and there they were. That's not quite the same as why he needed the words. If Ross phoned him and said "Let those 5 cars through quick!" then Michael knows how wrong it's looking, it's his specialist subject, but he can't exactly say why he's really done it! He can only say something about racing can't he?

And ever since F1 and their tame media have been dancing round this awkward fact that his first decision was actually in order to have a racing lap. Even quite recently we had FIA head of single seaters claiming the second decision was to have a racing lap, along with Brundle and pretty much everybody else. So for me his bosses are prime suspects, more than just a team that he's in charge of instead of the other way round.

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PlatinumZealot
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izzy wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:13 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:29 pm
FIA changes F1 rule on lapped cars overtaking Safety Car after Abu Dhabi row

https://www.racefans.net/2022/03/15/fia ... dhabi-row/

Edit*

Newly published 2022 Formula 1 Sporting Regulations 15 MARCH 2022 Issue 5

55.13 If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message “LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE” has been sent to all Competitors using the official messaging system, all cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car.
This will only apply to cars that were lapped at the time they crossed the Line at the end of the lap during which they crossed the first Safety Car line for the second time after the safety car was deployed.
Having overtaken the cars on the lead lap and the safety car these cars should then proceed around the track at an appropriate speed, without overtaking, and make every effort to take up position at the back of the line of cars behind the safety car. Whilst they are overtaking, and in order to ensure this may be carried out safely, the cars on the lead lap must always stay on the racing line unless deviating from it is unavoidable.
Unless the clerk of the course considers the presence of the safety car is still necessary, once the message “LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE” has been sent to all Competitors using the official messaging system, the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap.
55.14 When the clerk of the course decides it is safe to call in the safety car the message “SAFETY CAR IN THIS LAP” will be sent to all Competitors using the official messaging system and the car’s orange lights will be extinguished. This will be the signal to the Competitors and drivers that it will be entering the pit lane at the end of that lap.


At this point the first car in line behind the safety car may dictate the pace and, if necessary, fall more than ten (10) car lengths behind it.
In order to avoid the likelihood of accidents before the safety car returns to the pits, from the point at which the lights on the car are turned out drivers must proceed at a pace which involves no erratic acceleration or braking nor any other manoeuvre which is likely to endanger other drivers or impede the restart.
As the safety car is approaching the pit entry the SC boards will be withdrawn and, other than on the last lap of the sprint session or the race, as the leader approaches the Line the yellow flags will be withdrawn and a green flag and/or green light panel will be displayed at the Line.
Who wants to break these down in relation to Masi's decisions the last time he controlled the Safety car?
Oh MEEEeee :)

It's still IF xxx THEN lapped cars overtake, that's independent of the SC coming in, except that IF they do unlap then the SC has to come in at the end of the FOLLOWING lap.

"Any car" obviously means if it's a car then it applies, so "All cars" is just saying the same thing.

So Masi's initial call was perfect: he was making sure the season could end under green, by not unlapping and hence saving that extra lap of SC.

Then 3-4 mysterious minutes later he changed it, and the only difference was having no cars between Max and Lewis and causing a huge crisis. And in doing that he broke the rule about "Any cars" and also the rule about the extra lap of SC.

So Masi brought the sky down on his own head, for a difference he probably didn't care that much about. His motive is a complete mystery isn't it, until you think about the value of Max WDC to F1 :idea:

Oh also, the stewards were basically in on it weren't they. And they've got off scott free, unless Friday is a huge surprise.
That in bold especially can not be understated. The value of Max as champion has "paid back" all the fans that he brought in the last 7 years, it has set up a titanic rematch, and it had a huge controversy factor. So the slight moment of incredulity was a small price for the FIA.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌

====Zen level====
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izzy
izzy
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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 9:36 pm

That in bold especially can not be understated. The value of Max as champion has "paid back" all the fans that he brought in the last 7 years, it has set up a titanic rematch, and it had a huge controversy factor. So the slight moment of incredulity was a small price for the FIA.
Yes this is F1 meets DTS isn't it, in real life. It's 100% obvious Michael got a call :twisted: .

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AeroDynamic
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congrats. least cringe one they've done with the drivers faces and mannerisms.

KeiKo403
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I used to have respect for Domenicali and thought F1 was in good hands when he took over. These answers though...


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AeroDynamic
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Dont know where else to post this but thought it was a cool lil new intro video


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mclaren111
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AeroDynamic wrote:
Fri Mar 18, 2022 10:26 am
Dont know where else to post this but thought it was a cool lil new intro video


Sky says "rebuild of the sport".... Confusing... #-o #-o

Since when did F1 need a "rebuild"...