Hybrid technology trend tyrannizing auto racing world in last 13 years. Hybrid, hydrogen & EV the future of auto racing?

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Stu
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Re: Hybrid technology trend tyrannizing auto racing world in last 13 years. Hybrid, hydrogen & EV the future of auto rac

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It’s called historics 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

wesley123
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Re: Hybrid technology trend tyrannizing auto racing world in last 13 years. Hybrid, hydrogen & EV the future of auto rac

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Zynerji wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:02 am
wesley123 wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:41 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:20 pm


Sheer, unadulterated, unapologetic purism hubris. The core concept of F1 that captured me as a fan was the mechanical simplification through relentless development. It appeared to me as an artform of design and efficiency. From the elegance of torsion bar suspension to the refined aero of 2008. These expressions of control over the natural laws of the universe are awe inspiring, and invaluable to the fundamentals of design methodology.
EV would literally be the way of efficiency. Also, there is so much that you can do with EV, things that realistically aren't (fully) possible in gasoline cars.
Yep. And it looses its mechanical appeal to me.

It seems inevitable, but I'm sure something purist will come along to capture all of the lost eyeballs that the EV/hybrid drives away from F1.🙏
It just seems rather trivial at this point to dislike EV. It literally ticks all your boxes.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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Re: Hybrid technology trend tyrannizing auto racing world in last 13 years. Hybrid, hydrogen & EV the future of auto rac

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wesley123 wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:56 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:02 am
wesley123 wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:41 pm


EV would literally be the way of efficiency. Also, there is so much that you can do with EV, things that realistically aren't (fully) possible in gasoline cars.
Yep. And it looses its mechanical appeal to me.

It seems inevitable, but I'm sure something purist will come along to capture all of the lost eyeballs that the EV/hybrid drives away from F1.🙏
It just seems rather trivial at this point to dislike EV. It literally ticks all your boxes.
Sure. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I like the organic mechanical nature of ultra refined machines. I like them even more when they "overcome" the laws of physics. I also greatly respect the humans that trust them enough to push them to the edge and hold them there.

EV is fine, and obviously the future. It is also sterile and unexciting to me. It simply cannot demand the awe and attention of the 3L v10s from 2005.

But bottling lightning and fire to travel and traverse a course at visceral sounding speed with the barest of adhesion? Yes please!

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Re: Hybrid technology trend tyrannizing auto racing world in last 13 years. Hybrid, hydrogen & EV the future of auto rac

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Zynerji wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 2:41 am
wesley123 wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:56 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:02 am


Yep. And it looses its mechanical appeal to me.

It seems inevitable, but I'm sure something purist will come along to capture all of the lost eyeballs that the EV/hybrid drives away from F1.🙏
It just seems rather trivial at this point to dislike EV. It literally ticks all your boxes.
Sure. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I like the organic mechanical nature of ultra refined machines. I like them even more when they "overcome" the laws of physics. I also greatly respect the humans that trust them enough to push them to the edge and hold them there.

EV is fine, and obviously the future. It is also sterile and unexciting to me. It simply cannot demand the awe and attention of the 3L v10s from 2005.

But bottling lightning and fire to travel and traverse a course at visceral sounding speed with the barest of adhesion? Yes please!
"belgh, wings don't belong on racing cars" (And many other comments like that over the history of F1)

It's progress, and if you like it or not, it's moving forward, like it should. Every time it becomes to "space age", there is a bunch of people saying, oh, its destroyed, this isn't f1 anymore, just start a racing series with etc etc and people will switch over.
Never nobody anywhere did. Not when the car's got wings, not when they were made of plastic, not when you couldn't win a race anymore with a Cosworth, not when you couldn't build an f1 car in a shed, not when the tobacco companies put stickers on there, not when the car's grew from 400 kg to 600.

Two times F1 took a step backwards. Both times they almost lost their status and appeal of being the highest level of motorsport.

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Re: Hybrid technology trend tyrannizing auto racing world in last 13 years. Hybrid, hydrogen & EV the future of auto rac

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Jolle wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:49 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 2:41 am
wesley123 wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:56 pm


It just seems rather trivial at this point to dislike EV. It literally ticks all your boxes.
Sure. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I like the organic mechanical nature of ultra refined machines. I like them even more when they "overcome" the laws of physics. I also greatly respect the humans that trust them enough to push them to the edge and hold them there.

EV is fine, and obviously the future. It is also sterile and unexciting to me. It simply cannot demand the awe and attention of the 3L v10s from 2005.

But bottling lightning and fire to travel and traverse a course at visceral sounding speed with the barest of adhesion? Yes please!
"belgh, wings don't belong on racing cars" (And many other comments like that over the history of F1)

It's progress, and if you like it or not, it's moving forward, like it should. Every time it becomes to "space age", there is a bunch of people saying, oh, its destroyed, this isn't f1 anymore, just start a racing series with etc etc and people will switch over.
Never nobody anywhere did. Not when the car's got wings, not when they were made of plastic, not when you couldn't win a race anymore with a Cosworth, not when you couldn't build an f1 car in a shed, not when the tobacco companies put stickers on there, not when the car's grew from 400 kg to 600.

Two times F1 took a step backwards. Both times they almost lost their status and appeal of being the highest level of motorsport.
Meh. My beliefs don't effect F1s direction. Don't worry about my opinion so much. There will always be folks building loud gas burners in their garage. Motorsport is inclusive enough to have both.

And I honestly don't care what is called. I willl switch my attention to the next fastest gasoline open wheel series the moment F1 is full EV.

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Airshifter
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Re: Hybrid technology trend tyrannizing auto racing world in last 13 years. Hybrid, hydrogen & EV the future of auto rac

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Hard to say which series hold out using ICE only. For lack of better guess, I'll say NASCAR, since they seem to keep embracing tech that is decades old in hopes of making things more equal!

And being old enough to appreciate the raw unrefined sound of the engines of decades gone by, I still struggle to appreciate full EV racing. But the potential in hybrid or full EV is just amazing and proven. It's here to stay with a major hurdle in some series being the implementation costs initially. F1 seemed to overcome the mechanical complexity of dealing with hybrids fairly quickly but they are also at the pointy end of the budgets involved as well.

I'm sure there will be series that hold out as long as possible though, as to some extent the experience of hearing a finely tuned ICE is hard to beat. But on the flip side, we quickly got used to the sound of more refined and precise fuel metering/timing/overall engine control that made the cars sound so much differently than the older cars with individual carbs, nasty cams, and no electronics controlling it all.

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Re: Hybrid technology trend tyrannizing auto racing world in last 13 years. Hybrid, hydrogen & EV the future of auto rac

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Zynerji wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:40 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:09 am
Zynerji wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:23 am
I'm not a fan of hybrid/ev in racing. Just like every other sport, it should be separated by boys and girls.
Not true in motorsports as recently shown in Dakar

Cristina Gutierrez (driver) was 3rd in T3 category of the toughest race in the world
https://phantom-marca.unidadeditorial.e ... 857363.jpg

Maybe junior-senior would be more appropiatte :wink:
I think you missed the sarcasm in my humor in that one...🤣
Certainly. But even re-reading now I still can´t see any sarcasm. People can´t read your mind if you post just a line with an unaccurate statement :wink:

No need to downvote just because you failed to show the mood of your post btw

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Zynerji
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Re: Hybrid technology trend tyrannizing auto racing world in last 13 years. Hybrid, hydrogen & EV the future of auto rac

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Andres125sx wrote:
Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:12 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:40 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:09 am


Not true in motorsports as recently shown in Dakar

Cristina Gutierrez (driver) was 3rd in T3 category of the toughest race in the world
https://phantom-marca.unidadeditorial.e ... 857363.jpg

Maybe junior-senior would be more appropiatte :wink:
I think you missed the sarcasm in my humor in that one...🤣
Certainly. But even re-reading now I still can´t see any sarcasm. People can´t read your mind if you post just a line with an unaccurate statement :wink:

No need to downvote just because you failed to show the mood of your post btw

The joke was that Internal combustion engines were men, and EV are women.

I see the downvotes...🤣

It's like everything else here... Crusaders and Karens unite!

J.A.W.
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Re: Hybrid technology trend tyrannizing auto racing world in last 13 years. Hybrid, hydrogen & EV the future of auto rac

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Zynerji wrote:
Sun Jan 30, 2022 3:03 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:12 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:40 pm


I think you missed the sarcasm in my humor in that one...🤣
Certainly. But even re-reading now I still can´t see any sarcasm. People can´t read your mind if you post just a line with an unaccurate statement :wink:

No need to downvote just because you failed to show the mood of your post btw

The joke was that Internal combustion engines were men, and EV are women.

I see the downvotes...🤣

It's like everything else here... Crusaders and Karens unite!
I got the joke, but some members have no sense of irony, let alone sarcasm..

I agree that a bit of 'Junior Senior' is properly topical, "Can't stop the beat... going downtown.. oh yeah."

"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

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Zynerji
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Re: Hybrid technology trend tyrannizing auto racing world in last 13 years. Hybrid, hydrogen & EV the future of auto rac

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Andres125sx wrote:
Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:12 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:40 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:09 am


Not true in motorsports as recently shown in Dakar

Cristina Gutierrez (driver) was 3rd in T3 category of the toughest race in the world
https://phantom-marca.unidadeditorial.e ... 857363.jpg

Maybe junior-senior would be more appropiatte :wink:
I think you missed the sarcasm in my humor in that one...🤣
Certainly. But even re-reading now I still can´t see any sarcasm. People can´t read your mind if you post just a line with an unaccurate statement :wink:

No need to downvote just because you failed to show the mood of your post btw
Sometimes, I find that this is the difficulty of international forums. If I would have dropped that line in my friends group, as the absurd metaphor is the context clue, everyone would have immediately understood it as the joke it was, and laughed as they internally unpacked the sarcasm.

And I don't downvote. I'm very "free speech" even if it is idiocy or misinformation. Im a critical thinker, and am simply not afraid of any of it. Also, my mobile browser doesn't seem to work with how the site is coded anyway!🤣🤣🤣

NL_Fer
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Re: Hybrid technology trend tyrannizing auto racing world in last 13 years. Hybrid, hydrogen & EV the future of auto rac

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It is a weird split nowadays.

On TV I miss the old high revving NA sounds of F1. But at a live F1 race, the V6 hybrid sounds fine. Not loud, but very technical.

Formula E sounds boring. But accelerating in a high performance EV, I don’t miss the sound at all. The pull is more than convincing.

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ispano6
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Re: Hybrid technology trend tyrannizing auto racing world in last 13 years. Hybrid, hydrogen & EV the future of auto rac

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I tend to disagree that hybrid technology is tyrannizing auto racing. If anything, it's providing challenges to push automotive innovation toward ingenuity. It represents the extreme test environment in which the technological race/war is carried out. Hydrogen fuel-cell, high capacity/density recharge/discharge batteries, and bio-fuels advance human responsibility and sustainability of our precious planet. The FIA and similar bodies should be commended for their efforts. The older generations of people have a wisdom that they've acquired that they want to pass on to the future generations, learnings from their mistakes and wrong-ways. One need only to look at air-pollution to understand the lesson we've learned and the consequences of it.

To say that hybrid technology is taking away from "mechanical" engineering and isn't "defying" the laws of Physics is somewhat nonsense. Sure, there is a form of exhilaration that is associated to high pitch wailing of cars driving around in circles, to the detriment of onlooker's hearing. It could also be regarded as plain silly. It's like the concept of adding rocket and laser beam sounds to spaceships in science-fiction movies. Not only does it "defy" physics, but it represents adding entertainment to boost performance. That is, unless, if your primary modus operandi is to entertain over racing. Sure, in the past, the sound of a high pitch V12 engine might have signified a high power engine, a marvel of engineering. However, just like energy lost to heat, there is energy lost to sound. So if you can produce the same speed performance with lower sound or can convert sound waves into usable energy, then that in itself is an advancement of engineering.

I can understand that losing an audible characteristic of race cars might diminish the excitement of attending a live race experience. I've found from attending Formula 1 races in the past 7 years that I wouldn't want to put my ears through the pain of a V12 engine shrill. To me it's unnecessary and doesn't add to the racing. The smell of race fuel, the burning smell of an electrical wire or motor, the off-throttle growling of the exhaust in corners, and the sound that a car makes as it recovers energy under braking - it all adds to the experience and senses as to what is going on with the car as it passes by. The cars are still loud, just not high pitch. You still feel quite a bit of energy from the car - it's just a different experience and in my opinion the sound of a more advanced car.

Edit: for the individual down-voting for "incorrect assumptions", explain yourself in how I can have an "incorrect" opinion.
Last edited by ispano6 on Wed Feb 02, 2022 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hybrid technology trend tyrannizing auto racing world in last 13 years. Hybrid, hydrogen & EV the future of auto rac

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J.A.W. wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:25 am
Zynerji wrote:
Sun Jan 30, 2022 3:03 pm

The joke was that Internal combustion engines were men, and EV are women.
I got the joke, but some members have no sense of irony, let alone sarcasm..

You both missed the point, the joke was obvious, but that´s exactly the reason it can be considered machism, its implying men (ICE) are top and women (EV) are second class

IMHO the only reason women are not in F1 is they´re usually less interested in cars, motorsports and racing, so the chances for some with real talent to work a racing career are several orders of magnitude lower

Same as any country dominating some specific sport due to tradition. When a high percentage of population try that sport chances for someone with talent to give it a try are much higher, so more people will reach the top. But that does not mean other countries can´t reach the top, only that few people give it a try so it´s almost a coincidence if some with real talent give it a try and reach the top.

Same as women in motorsport, it´s almost a coincidence if some with real talent is interested in motorsport, so they´re a minority, but that does not mean they can´t reach the top, only that since they´re usually not as interested, few give it a try and most talented women never even try it


Anycase it was just a comment, no need to start a debate :oops:

J.A.W.
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Re: Hybrid technology trend tyrannizing auto racing world in last 13 years. Hybrid, hydrogen & EV the future of auto rac

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Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Feb 01, 2022 8:10 am
J.A.W. wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:25 am
Zynerji wrote:
Sun Jan 30, 2022 3:03 pm

The joke was that Internal combustion engines were men, and EV are women.
I got the joke, but some members have no sense of irony, let alone sarcasm..

You both missed the point, the joke was obvious, but that´s exactly the reason it can be considered machism, its implying men (ICE) are top and women (EV) are second class

IMHO the only reason women are not in F1 is they´re usually less interested in cars, motorsports and racing, so the chances for some with real talent to work a racing career are several orders of magnitude lower

Same as any country dominating some specific sport due to tradition. When a high percentage of population try that sport chances for someone with talent to give it a try are much higher, so more people will reach the top. But that does not mean other countries can´t reach the top, only that few people give it a try so it´s almost a coincidence if some with real talent give it a try and reach the top.

Same as women in motorsport, it´s almost a coincidence if some with real talent is interested in motorsport, so they´re a minority, but that does not mean they can´t reach the top, only that since they´re usually not as interested, few give it a try and most talented women never even try it


Anycase it was just a comment, no need to start a debate :oops:
In point of fact you've reinforced Zynerji's comment, (as well as mine).

As per a joke itself, if you have to pull up a copy of 'Gray's Anatomy' to dissect it, its already too late..

"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
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Re: Hybrid technology trend tyrannizing auto racing world in last 13 years. Hybrid, hydrogen & EV the future of auto rac

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It would appear (by the downvote*) that a member didn't grasp the boomerang, ah I mean, gravity..

So here is a very well-presented address by Greta Thunberg (in Halloween/Jason outfit), explaining
why holding onto gasoline is:

"...such a puny plan... no more games, no more games, we are here for a purpose!... Just walk away..."



*Appending at time of posting.
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).