Mercedes W13

[Hoffman900]

Mercedes floor from Russel's crash last week

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FXFtkHcWIAA ... &name=orig

Nice find, thanks !

We can see they have moved the design more towards a RB floor albeit without the sophistication and intricacies.

How? By installing a bracket to stiffen it?

[Henri]

Merc expert to be closer after the td is active

[ringo]

Remember there are rules now that allow gills in certain areas.
This was not the case all the time.
The gills effectively reduce the volume of the sidepods

They don't, they are merely an alternative for a huge air exit at the rear.

but you can also do something with the hot air under certain circumstances.

No, this mildly warm air has no value and is completely undesirable.

But i just feel its a lot of energy in that air and a lot of temperature difference with the free stream. It could be used for something.

It has no energy as this usable energy has been spent collecting heat from the radiators. If this air had any energy it would solely mean that you aren't cooling your engine as effectively as you could have.

How can it have no energy?
You are aware of the Thermodynamic Laws?
Or how heat exchangers work?

The ambient air thats hits the radiators dont take heat off coolers and go back to ambient instantly.
They remove the heat then mix with the cooler air on the outside and dispersing heat with the air adjacent to the body of the car.

[rifrafs2kees]

Remember there are rules now that allow gills in certain areas.
This was not the case all the time.
The gills effectively reduce the volume of the sidepods

They don't, they are merely an alternative for a huge air exit at the rear.

but you can also do something with the hot air under certain circumstances.

No, this mildly warm air has no value and is completely undesirable.

But i just feel its a lot of energy in that air and a lot of temperature difference with the free stream. It could be used for something.

It has no energy as this usable energy has been spent collecting heat from the radiators. If this air had any energy it would solely mean that you aren't cooling your engine as effectively as you could have.

How can it have no energy?
You are aware of the Thermodynamic Laws?
Or how heat exchangers work?

The ambient air thats hits the radiators dont take heat off coolers and go back to ambient instantly.
They remove the heat then mix with the cooler air on the outside and dispersing heat with the air adjacent to the body of the car.

Can't be right. Let's take a newtonian approah for a sec. The air through the radiator will rob significant kinetic energy, i.e. drag plus heat if from radiator. So this fluid's resultant velocity will have a component in direction of vehicle travel. Therefore, it can never be as useful for downforce as non-radiator consumed air. Even worse, its turbulent nature will contribute to significant surface drag.
In short it's temperature will surely rise, yielding warmer components downstream... but won't help kinetic performance. You want to dump that stuff in the least disruptive way as possible.

[GrizzleBoy]

They don't, they are merely an alternative for a huge air exit at the rear.


No, this mildly warm air has no value and is completely undesirable.


It has no energy as this usable energy has been spent collecting heat from the radiators. If this air had any energy it would solely mean that you aren't cooling your engine as effectively as you could have.

How can it have no energy?
You are aware of the Thermodynamic Laws?
Or how heat exchangers work?

The ambient air thats hits the radiators dont take heat off coolers and go back to ambient instantly.
They remove the heat then mix with the cooler air on the outside and dispersing heat with the air adjacent to the body of the car.

Can't be right. Let's take a newtonian approah for a sec. The air through the radiator will rob significant kinetic energy, i.e. drag plus heat if from radiator. So this fluid's resultant velocity will have a component in direction of vehicle travel. Therefore, it can never be as useful for downforce as non-radiator consumed air. Even worse, its turbulent nature will contribute to significant surface drag.
In short it's temperature will surely rise, yielding warmer components downstream... but won't help kinetic performance. You want to dump that stuff in the least disruptive way as possible.

Thats why I said above that the flow can be placed in a certain way to discourage flow in certain areas.

For instance, could Ferrari's upward facing vents discourage flow from attaching to the upper surface of the side pods and therefore shed surface drag?

[AA_2019]

#F1: AMuS says Mercedes expect the technical directive for bouncing to bring them closer to the opponents. The announcement that the floor planks will be controlled more strictly for uniform stiffness has caused unrest, especially for RB & Ferrari.
Merc expert to be closer after the td is active

Still a big "if". RB are very good at arguing their case... so good that the clamp down due to come in from France has today been pushed back to Belgium following the teams meeting on the TD.

The rumours are that RB's plank flexes by 6mm at the rear so reducing this to the max 2mm allowed could broadly mean raising their stationary rear ride height by 4mm. What does raising the stationary ride height by this amount equate to in lap time?

At a wild guess perhaps 0.2s ? The w13 would be reasonably close then.

[prox]

Merc running the same car as what they had at Silverstone accoring to SkyF1.

[mkay]

Now that the directive has been pushed by 2 GPs, is it worth for Merc to introduce a similar setup for the next 2 races?

[Hoffman900]

Remember there are rules now that allow gills in certain areas.
This was not the case all the time.
The gills effectively reduce the volume of the sidepods

They don't, they are merely an alternative for a huge air exit at the rear.

but you can also do something with the hot air under certain circumstances.

No, this mildly warm air has no value and is completely undesirable.

But i just feel its a lot of energy in that air and a lot of temperature difference with the free stream. It could be used for something.

It has no energy as this usable energy has been spent collecting heat from the radiators. If this air had any energy it would solely mean that you aren't cooling your engine as effectively as you could have.

How can it have no energy?
You are aware of the Thermodynamic Laws?
Or how heat exchangers work?

The ambient air thats hits the radiators dont take heat off coolers and go back to ambient instantly.
They remove the heat then mix with the cooler air on the outside and dispersing heat with the air adjacent to the body of the car.

He said “useable” energy.

Exhausted radiator air is almost always detrimental to the overall aero scheme from a drag and downforce standpoint.

[hkbruin]

It seems like the rear end of the W13 is more like an airplane than a car. As both HAM and RUS lost the grip in the rear, it looks like the rear is flying/airborne albeit very close to the ground. With how large the surface area of the diffuser is with the narrow sidepods and rear, it's practically a wing.

[ringo]

The car maybe feels like it has the grip available to push, and then it gives up the grip if there is a shift in the load on the axles. Seems like this car has a narrow window, and it could be stemming from the stiff suspension.

Lewis did at times look like he could threaten for pole, but may this kind driving isn't sustainable. The car has a long way to go yet.

[Stu]

The car maybe feels like it has the grip available to push, and then it gives up the grip if there is a shift in the load on the axles. Seems like this car has a narrow window, and it could be stemming from the stiff suspension.

Lewis did at times look like he could threaten for pole, but may this kind driving isn't sustainable. The car has a long way to go yet.

That suggests a suspension issue (possibly due to a lack of travel?).

[maxxer]

The car maybe feels like it has the grip available to push, and then it gives up the grip if there is a shift in the load on the axles. Seems like this car has a narrow window, and it could be stemming from the stiff suspension.

Lewis did at times look like he could threaten for pole, but may this kind driving isn't sustainable. The car has a long way to go yet.

They have improved the front , but it seems rear is like on/off kind of suspension not smooth the lower the car gets to the ground the stiffer it gets to stop it from going lower

[OO7]

[PlatinumZealot]

Still the simple almond shaped floor. No new floor yet.