McLaren MCL36

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
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bauc
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Re: McLaren MCL36

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djos wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:26 pm
bauc wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:23 pm
djos wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 10:48 am
It’s pretty disappointing - Williams brought a B Spec car to Silverstone and Mclaren have brought only minor tweaks to every race.
Williams is dead last, that is why they need B spec car, we are 4th and with this car we can fight for the same till the end (with some small upgrades as well)
That is true, however, by that logic we wouldn’t see any significant updates from Ferrari or RedBull.
Did you see any major updates on the Ferrari? Every team has a different path/plan.
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McMika98
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Re: McLaren MCL36

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Forget Ferrari, the Haas car us the same car from the start of year, they have zero upgrages and are scoring points and getting to Q3.

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Maax70
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Re: McLaren MCL36

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Still looking for a differences which may justify the lack of performance, not only the underfloor flow intake is unique among all the '23 F1 preventing the central portion to flow to the venturi
Image
but also the height of the two small intakes seems remarkably lower.
Image
So I guess other teams start make working the floor through the season tuning, while with MCL36 struggles because the venturi are choked or down sized in terms of flowrate.
Could MCL36 be a very good car with "just" a big aerodinamic mistake ?

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DiogoBrand
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Re: McLaren MCL36

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Maax70 wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:19 pm
Still looking for a differences which may justify the lack of performance, not only the underfloor flow intake is unique among all the '23 F1 preventing the central portion to flow to the venturi
https://imageshack.com/i/poePHKYkj
but also the height of the two small intakes seems remarkably lower.
https://imageshack.com/i/pmdRFBDRj
So I guess other teams start make working the floor through the season tuning, while with MCL36 struggles because the venturi are choked or down sized in terms of flowrate.
Could MCL36 be a very good car with "just" a big aerodinamic mistake ?
Hard to tell, but it seems possible to me.
The thing is: If that's the problem, couldn't they improve on it during this season instead of giving up and focusing on next year?

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djos
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Re: McLaren MCL36

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bauc wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:44 pm
djos wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:26 pm
bauc wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:23 pm


Williams is dead last, that is why they need B spec car, we are 4th and with this car we can fight for the same till the end (with some small upgrades as well)
That is true, however, by that logic we wouldn’t see any significant updates from Ferrari or RedBull.
Did you see any major updates on the Ferrari? Every team has a different path/plan.
I didn’t say major, I said significant. Ferrari have brought upgrades to most races.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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continuum16
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Re: McLaren MCL36

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DiogoBrand wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:55 pm
Maax70 wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:19 pm
Still looking for a differences which may justify the lack of performance, not only the underfloor flow intake is unique among all the '23 F1 preventing the central portion to flow to the venturi
https://imageshack.com/i/poePHKYkj
but also the height of the two small intakes seems remarkably lower.
https://imageshack.com/i/pmdRFBDRj
So I guess other teams start make working the floor through the season tuning, while with MCL36 struggles because the venturi are choked or down sized in terms of flowrate.
Could MCL36 be a very good car with "just" a big aerodinamic mistake ?
Hard to tell, but it seems possible to me.
The thing is: If that's the problem, couldn't they improve on it during this season instead of giving up and focusing on next year?
You’d think so…

This does make some sense as a theory though. McLaren’s tunnel entry is probably the most unique part of the car. Unlike most (all?) cars, it’s basically a rectangle, not higher inboard or outboard, and the strakes also have a perfectly vertical rectangular profile to them. Most other teams have much more “organically shaped” strakes and/or entries. What does that have to do with anything? IDK but it’s just something different than everyone else.

Then there is the fact that they do not feed the central section of the Venturi because they redirect the flow around the outside to create outwash; which seems like an extreme route for the flow to take. This seems on the face of it like it could both create quite a lot of drag given the extreme direction change (compared to if the flow passed through the central section like on other cars) and also potentially rob the floor of additional flow, which if used correctly, could also be costing them downforce? The redirection of the central flow seems to achieve the same function as a Ferrari/RB/Alpine style undercut, but the space is much more heavily restricted. The fact that the sidepods are short and have neither a huge undercut (there is a little since Spain) nor a ramp-type shape do not help, although they probably have bigger problems. It goes without saying that I’m not an aerodynamicist so best I can do is guess, but the more I look at certain parts of the car the less it looks like anything else. There’s surely a reason for that…
"You can't argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
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Maax70
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Re: McLaren MCL36

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you perfectly got my point and found better words for it

Ben1980
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Re: McLaren MCL36

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If the car has such an issue, and a bit issue from the explanations. And the car is still a match for all the other cars bar the big 3. Does that speak a lot for the car or that others also haven't nailed it.

Alpine seems to be the closest challenger to mclaren. But last weekend Lando seemed to be comfortably able to keep him at arms length until the pit stop mess.

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Maax70
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Re: McLaren MCL36

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Exactly. The car still match Alpine (but only with Lando), so not so bad notwithstanding some aerodynamic issue admitted by the team (drag/efficiency).
Once solved this issue and with the couple of tenth in the Lando's foot, they could be back to Ferrari pace like last year.
For the moment in my view RBR lost the advantage of the rake-car so FER is there now, MER has some issues (almost solved) and MCL has some issues (far to be solved).
Who knows which are the reasons , I'm just having fun looking for big differences and wating for the sprint race....
Image
Image
Image

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bauc
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Location: Skopje, Macedonia

Re: McLaren MCL36

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djos wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 2:52 am
bauc wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:44 pm
djos wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:26 pm


That is true, however, by that logic we wouldn’t see any significant updates from Ferrari or RedBull.
Did you see any major updates on the Ferrari? Every team has a different path/plan.
I didn’t say major, I said significant. Ferrari have brought upgrades to most races.
Don't forget that Williams had the most wind tunnel and CFD time allowance since they were at the bottom of the table. As for the MCL36, I think this car is hit & miss and the best thing is to fully understand it and push for big things next year. We always knew that if the car is not improving significantly by Silverston the team will ''throw the towel''
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diffuser
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Re: McLaren MCL36

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Maax70 wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 2:17 pm
Exactly. The car still match Alpine (but only with Lando), so not so bad notwithstanding some aerodynamic issue admitted by the team (drag/efficiency).
Once solved this issue and with the couple of tenth in the Lando's foot, they could be back to Ferrari pace like last year.
For the moment in my view RBR lost the advantage of the rake-car so FER is there now, MER has some issues (almost solved) and MCL has some issues (far to be solved).
Who knows which are the reasons , I'm just having fun looking for big differences and wating for the sprint race....
https://imageshack.com/i/pml9dZPwj
https://imageshack.com/i/poybtmilj
https://imageshack.com/i/pmUMiKW1j
Very good pics. Just want to point out that Alpine had a HUGE update at Silverstone and very little time to evaluate it. Think we'll need a few races to tell. Also Alonso said they were expecting McLaren was going to be strong at Silverstone, not sure why, that's what he said.

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Blackout
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Re: McLaren MCL36

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Maax70 wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 2:17 pm
Once solved this issue and with the couple of tenth in the Lando's foot, they could be back to Ferrari pace like last year.
Yea of course...
First you should think why Mclaren was near Ferrari (and faster than Alpine) at the start of that very particular and unrepresentative season of 2021...
It's very logical to see them behind the big 3 in 2022, and close to Alpine at best. Both Alpine and MCL are a bit underperforming currently, but they are more or less at their place.

A cool pic of the MCL-spec Mercedes PU, its charge-air ducting and Mercedes exhausts

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JordanMugen
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Re: McLaren MCL36

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Maax70 wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:19 pm
Still looking for a differences which may justify the lack of performance, not only the underfloor flow intake is unique among all the '23 F1 preventing the central portion to flow to the venturi
Image
Yes, it is a very unusual and unique design. It also means (AFAIK) that McLaren get no benefit from the second bib wing, as that vortex can't be fed to the underfloor anyway.

Any theories on why the McLaren bib is shaped like this and why McLaren considers this the best solution for their concept? :?:

PhillipM
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Re: McLaren MCL36

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They were trying to outwash hard at the sidepods to drive the floor that way, with less tunnel flow and then probably a broader setup window but less peak performance.
Versus such as Merc that went very aggressive with the tunnels and then struggle with setup and porpoising.

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Maax70
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Re: McLaren MCL36

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Yes, this is my view.
Other teams may have struggled with porposing but gradually with set-up and small changes may have started to improve performance possibly also managing higher tunnel flow (ground effect is dragless).
The hard outwash may be one of the reason of the chronic drag. I don't remember major complains from RIC and NOR about the handling, it seem they simply suffer of drag and downforce, so a broader set-up but without potential.
For the moment Williams and Aston Martin seems costantly not working, while Haas, Alfa Romeno & Alpha Tauri depends on the tracks. Confident to be wrong, I feel we begin to sink in the midfield because I note in the interview a latent satisfaction for small points (i.e
SAI+PER DNF and ALO started from last row) : Andreas Seidl, Team Principal “Scoring with both cars is a good outcome from a tough Sprint weekend here in Spielberg". Let' see in France, fortunately the straight of the mistral is no more completely straight.