Hamilton Study about F1 Jobs

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Zynerji
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ringo wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 4:07 am
Zynerji wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 5:53 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 5:44 pm


Yes, but according to Lewis' study it is big disproportion. This sort of thing is very studied. For example, people always say that Asian students have an affinity for mathematics. They are strong math yes, but why? is it natural? Studies show this level of math ability had a strong relation to their agriculture. Asians tend to the most difficult crops, which require intense commitment and hard tireless work till harvesting time. This culture over thousands of years, created a sort of attitude of "stick-to-it-iveness." Their students to stick to math and keep working on it - so at the end of the day you get a broader net. So you see a high proportion of immigrant Asians in the STEM field in western countries. Note... culture...history conditions... America is currently making moves in how math is administered to its students at all levels to get them more up to speed with the boom in STEM in Asia.

Lewis has noticed the huge dearth of his people in STEM.. his study is to see how the culture...history conditions affect this, and he wants to improve this condition with the HELP of industry players. Help doesn't mean hiring under-qualified people. Most of the time person's have colour have to be exceptional to get the job anyway (like Lewis!)

It's a great study, and a good call for support.
When does the personal responsibility of the folks that want these jobs come into the equation? The hard work, determination and effort that it takes is secondary to the passion necessary to choose that path in the first place.

Maybe folks of color just don't want certain jobs? When is their choices taken into account in this study? Have they charted the applications to these schools to see if anyone is applying in the first place, or is it an "outcome imbalance" that leads to the manufacturing of reasons to explain the differences?
From reading most of the comments. I assume from european white forum members. I can see the ignorance or just complete lack of understanding. You cannot know if you have never experienced structural racism or discrimination. It would take a lot of reasing as well as interacting with people who expereince this and knowing western imperial and colonial history to understand. It's very broad.
But i think to believe Lewis is overreacting or lying is the wrong position to take. It screams of ignorance to look on the current set of drivers as well as the f1 teams thousands of employees and claim they are a diverse group.
as for your comments about football. There are historical reasons as to why there are more coloured people in the more "primal" sports.
example track, boxing, basketball, NFL.
These are easier to access sports and from an entertainnent and commercial point of view these sports were more tolerable for minorities to participate as there is an ownership and trading component. You should read american history on this. Formula 1 and Tennis and golf and so forth are gentle mens' sports. And the other country club sports.
It is not only a matter of people not wanting to participate or not being qualified enough.
I am sure earning millions for whacking a ball on a lawn is something that's not too dificult ro do or unattractive. There is a lot more to what Lewis speaks of that many fail to appreciate because they have never lived it.
But I am glad that the sport is looking into it and not taking the position that some here take, that Lewis is just being idle or asking for too much.
I don't think he asks too much. I think that he is in an echo chamber that only feeds back one idea.

In any limited-opening group (F1 drivers here), there are literally hundreds of folks that don't get the chance.

It is what it is. And with how many ppl talk trash about Pay Drivers that dont deserve their seat on merit, how would they react to Affirmative Action drivers?

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Zynerji
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GrizzleBoy wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 3:16 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 4:14 pm
F1 is, and has always been, a meritocracy. There are, and have been, engineers, team principals, agents, drivers and owners that are considered a minority.

Motorsports have an appeal to the individual, not their race.

Of all of the World's institutions, I will never understand how F1 is in any way brought to ill-repute by these baseless accusations of racism.. 🙄
Meritocracy?

Mick Schumacher is where he is because of his dad's status in F1.

Verstappen is in F1 because of his dad's influence in F1.

Charles Leclerc is in F1 because of his families links to F1 (Jules Bianchi isn't it?).

Mazepin was in F1 because his dad paid for him to be there.

Stroll is in F1 because his dad bought an entire team.

Latifi is in F1 because he is from a billionaire family and literally paying to drive the car.

George Russels parents are super wealthy.

Nico Rosberg......

Alex Brundle being Martin Brundles son now being a professional racing xommentator.

I could probably go on and on and on.

There are goodness knows how many Fittipaldi's running around Formula series paddocks.

Trying to somehow paint F1 as a sport where all you need is to "get in" is just be good is possibly as naive as you can get.

Minimising the wide ranging and nuanced report Lewis put together regarding access to the sport with a reply like "stop complaining about racism" shows quite a lot of ignorance on many levels.

Money and who you know is almost everything in F1 and when things are run in such a way, it's not exactly a leap to suggest that maybe not everyone has a fair or equal opportunities to get in.
Sounds like a money problem, and not a race problem then.

The Woke will destroy everything if you let them, and I have zero compulsion to participate or take any of it seriously.

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PlatinumZealot
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chrisc90 wrote:
Tue May 03, 2022 8:26 pm


F1 isn't diverse?

20 drivers...You have Mexican , Chinese , Thai , English , Spanish , Australian , Canadian, Monaco, Danish, Dutch, Japanese, German.

Personally I feel its been a 'lonely road' for him is that he never bothers t mingle and have banter with the other drivers on the grid/pits/podiums etc. He just keeps to himself (and Angela). If you dont join in with the group activities/socialism, then you get left out and there's nobody to blame for that but yourself IMHO. It also shouldn't be forgotten about how he got there...funded by Ron Dennis on his 'lonely journey' in F1.
You know what i realise? You didn't listen to all the words in the video. Lewis literally explained that he is talking about the INDUSTRY. Not the drivers.

He said there are 40,000 jobs. And less than 1% is from black background.

In a team of 500 persons. Thats like less than 5 people that might be black or maybe half or quarter black.

Zynergi who shares your views, says that will destroy the industry if there are 1% or more POC in the teams. :mrgreen:

You guys are overreacting! :wink:
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌

====Zen level====
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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 5:59 pm
The same was said for:
No, it was not. At this time it was just blunt racism and people were protecting this racism.

Lewis himself is the proof, that F1 has not a problem with racism, but with money.

ENGINE TUNER
ENGINE TUNER
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Zynerji wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 4:14 pm
F1 is, and has always been, a meritocracy. There are, and have been, engineers, team principals, agents, drivers and owners that are considered a minority.

Motorsports have an appeal to the individual, not their race.

Of all of the World's institutions, I will never understand how F1 is in any way brought to ill-repute by these baseless accusations of racism.. 🙄
F1 has never been a meritocracy, if so then why are Stroll, Latifi, Zhou, Albon on the grid?

mrluke
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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 6:08 pm
chrisc90 wrote:
Tue May 03, 2022 8:26 pm


F1 isn't diverse?

20 drivers...You have Mexican , Chinese , Thai , English , Spanish , Australian , Canadian, Monaco, Danish, Dutch, Japanese, German.

Personally I feel its been a 'lonely road' for him is that he never bothers t mingle and have banter with the other drivers on the grid/pits/podiums etc. He just keeps to himself (and Angela). If you dont join in with the group activities/socialism, then you get left out and there's nobody to blame for that but yourself IMHO. It also shouldn't be forgotten about how he got there...funded by Ron Dennis on his 'lonely journey' in F1.
You know what i realise? You didn't listen to all the words in the video. Lewis literally explained that he is talking about the INDUSTRY. Not the drivers.

He said there are 40,000 jobs. And less than 1% is from black background.

In a team of 500 persons. Thats like less than 5 people that might be black or maybe half or quarter black.

Zynergi who shares your views, says that will destroy the industry if there are 1% or more POC in the teams. :mrgreen:

You guys are overreacting! :wink:
100% this. The Hamilton commission has done a big study into the root causes but the end of the day POC are severly underepresented in F1, thats mechanics, designers, engineers and of course drivers.

The best teams are diverse teams.

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ringo
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Zynerji wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 4:14 pm

It is what it is. And with how many ppl talk trash about Pay Drivers that dont deserve their seat on merit, how would they react to Affirmative Action drivers?
Very loaded words there. What country are you from?
I guess affirmative action lead to the statistical GOAT. If you are trying to say minorities are getting jobs they dont deserve because of quotas.
I implore you to do some unbiased reading. Read some history to understand why Europe and the United States has amassed so much wealth in the last 500 years. It was not because of people being qualified to be wealthy I can assure you. lol.
For Sure!!

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https://report.hamiltoncommission.org/ ... index.html

For anyone who has a view point on Hamiltons comments (either way), I highly recommend you read through the above, it’s a summary so you won’t be sitting there for hours reading the full report.

Hamilton isn’t advocating for 100 more BAME background people to be placed in F1 teams overnight because he thinks F1 is racist. He wants to provide opportunity for people to learn STEM subjects to give them the tools required to get into F1 (and UK motorsport) if they want to.

Lewis is only highlighting a fact and trying to do something about it, and while there are many other facts he could highlight and choose to fight for/against he chooses one close to his heart.

I’m not accusing anyone directly here but some people seem threatened by his words.

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Zynerji
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ringo wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 2:53 am
Zynerji wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 4:14 pm

It is what it is. And with how many ppl talk trash about Pay Drivers that dont deserve their seat on merit, how would they react to Affirmative Action drivers?
Very loaded words there. What country are you from?
I guess affirmative action lead to the statistical GOAT. If you are trying to say minorities are getting jobs they dont deserve because of quotas.
I implore you to do some unbiased reading. Read some history to understand why Europe and the United States has amassed so much wealth in the last 500 years. It was not because of people being qualified to be wealthy I can assure you. lol.
The fact that people care what color a contestant is, at all, appears to be racist to me.

dialtone
dialtone
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Zynerji wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 1:16 pm
ringo wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 2:53 am
Zynerji wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 4:14 pm

It is what it is. And with how many ppl talk trash about Pay Drivers that dont deserve their seat on merit, how would they react to Affirmative Action drivers?
Very loaded words there. What country are you from?
I guess affirmative action lead to the statistical GOAT. If you are trying to say minorities are getting jobs they dont deserve because of quotas.
I implore you to do some unbiased reading. Read some history to understand why Europe and the United States has amassed so much wealth in the last 500 years. It was not because of people being qualified to be wealthy I can assure you. lol.
The fact that people care what color a contestant is, at all, appears to be racist to me.
This doesn't make any sense... Undoing a privilege is not guilty of privilege. You have made more than a few borderline racist comments on this forum so far this year.

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Quantum
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Zynerji wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 1:16 pm
ringo wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 2:53 am
Zynerji wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 4:14 pm

It is what it is. And with how many ppl talk trash about Pay Drivers that dont deserve their seat on merit, how would they react to Affirmative Action drivers?
Very loaded words there. What country are you from?
I guess affirmative action lead to the statistical GOAT. If you are trying to say minorities are getting jobs they dont deserve because of quotas.
I implore you to do some unbiased reading. Read some history to understand why Europe and the United States has amassed so much wealth in the last 500 years. It was not because of people being qualified to be wealthy I can assure you. lol.
The fact that people care what color a contestant is, at all, appears to be racist to me.

Yet your reactions against "woke" etc all appear to be an order of magnitude worse. Why be so offended by more inclusion in F1, be that of any colour or sex?
What offends you so much that you take aim at those wishing to break down the barriers of entry for anyone, so that it is talent, and talent alone that will dictate the course of a drivers career.

If Hamilton and Mercedes fund an underrepresented group or project, wishing to raise awareness on the discrepancy of opportunity, and not just for POC, that's a pretty decent cause.

The cold hard facts here are telling.
4 current drivers have had fathers who raced in F1 or highest level motorsport.
Verstappen, Schumacher, Sainz and Magnussen. Did you stop to think why 20% of the grid would be made up of former drivers sons?

Le Clerc's father was an F3 driver, and of some wealth (1.5m) funded his son until Ferrari picked him up.

George Russell's dad sold his agriculture business(2m) to fund his son until Mercedes picked him up.

Pierre Gasly's father is a multi millionaire and funded his sons development until RB picked him up.

Lando Norris father is a pension fund manager with a net worth north of 100m.

Alex Albon's father was a former Porsche cup driver with a net worth of over 4m, funded his junior career.

Sergio Perez father is a politican and of decent wealth, shady as wealth in mexico is hidden but north of 1m in very conservative estimates. Also helps when Mexican tax payer money/companies pays for his sons F1 ride in the early days.

Guanyo Zhou's parents are reputedly wealthy but with China info controls, little to nothing is known about them. They own a car production facility and some dealerships. North of 5m net worth easily.

Tsunoda's father was a racing driver and then a mechanic for a racing team, further info unavailable. But he did get picked up in the very early days by Honda...which power Alpha Tauri.

Latifi's father is a billionaire.

Stroll's father is a billionaire.

Hamilton, Alonso, Ricciardo, Ocon and Vettel are essentially the guys in F1 who came from what many would term normal wealth.
Vettel has 3 titles, Hamilton 7 and Alonso 2. So it stands to reason that their standout talent got them there.

Yet we have you "upset" about inclusion citing the "wokeness" ending the world.
Hamilton's point, very valid as proven by the above.... is drowned out by the divisive hate one would read in a tabloid. Step back, look at the big picture and see who's trying to make you angry.

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Zynerji
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Quantum wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 4:21 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 1:16 pm
ringo wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 2:53 am


Very loaded words there. What country are you from?
I guess affirmative action lead to the statistical GOAT. If you are trying to say minorities are getting jobs they dont deserve because of quotas.
I implore you to do some unbiased reading. Read some history to understand why Europe and the United States has amassed so much wealth in the last 500 years. It was not because of people being qualified to be wealthy I can assure you. lol.
The fact that people care what color a contestant is, at all, appears to be racist to me.

Yet your reactions against "woke" etc all appear to be an order of magnitude worse. Why be so offended by more inclusion in F1, be that of any colour or sex?
What offends you so much that you take aim at those wishing to break down the barriers of entry for anyone, so that it is talent, and talent alone that will dictate the course of a drivers career.

If Hamilton and Mercedes fund an underrepresented group or project, wishing to raise awareness on the discrepancy of opportunity, and not just for POC, that's a pretty decent cause.

The cold hard facts here are telling.
4 current drivers have had fathers who raced in F1 or highest level motorsport.
Verstappen, Schumacher, Sainz and Magnussen. Did you stop to think why 20% of the grid would be made up of former drivers sons?

Le Clerc's father was an F3 driver, and of some wealth (1.5m) funded his son until Ferrari picked him up.

George Russell's dad sold his agriculture business(2m) to fund his son until Mercedes picked him up.

Pierre Gasly's father is a multi millionaire and funded his sons development until RB picked him up.

Lando Norris father is a pension fund manager with a net worth north of 100m.

Alex Albon's father was a former Porsche cup driver with a net worth of over 4m, funded his junior career.

Sergio Perez father is a politican and of decent wealth, shady as wealth in mexico is hidden but north of 1m in very conservative estimates. Also helps when Mexican tax payer money/companies pays for his sons F1 ride in the early days.

Guanyo Zhou's parents are reputedly wealthy but with China info controls, little to nothing is known about them. They own a car production facility and some dealerships. North of 5m net worth easily.

Tsunoda's father was a racing driver and then a mechanic for a racing team, further info unavailable. But he did get picked up in the very early days by Honda...which power Alpha Tauri.

Latifi's father is a billionaire.

Stroll's father is a billionaire.

Hamilton, Alonso, Ricciardo, Ocon and Vettel are essentially the guys in F1 who came from what many would term normal wealth.
Vettel has 3 titles, Hamilton 7 and Alonso 2. So it stands to reason that their standout talent got them there.

Yet we have you "upset" about inclusion citing the "wokeness" ending the world.
Hamilton's point, very valid as proven by the above.... is drowned out by the divisive hate one would read in a tabloid. Step back, look at the big picture and see who's trying to make you angry.

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ringo
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:lol: =D>
I am speechless. Let us just agree to disagree. Some people just have a different view and awareness.

So about the team. Could the team have turned things around?
For Sure!!

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lucafo
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That is the great of Hamilton. A technical forum having this very important discussion!
Unfortunately words will never be enough to show the pain of feeling discriminated. And people like Zynergi will never understand until... (I hope you never be - seriously).
The good side is to see lots of supporters.
I will just keep the good side.
Life as it is...


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Redragon
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Alonso had similar upbringing coming from a poor family but overcome the obstacles by raw talent as Hamilton has have. I am sure Hamilton might have been more difficult because of color of skin as he is expressing but both are using their influences and money in different ways. Alonso has created an academy to help new generations from any background to have a change on motor racing, soon to open his second one in china. Also sponsors esports with a team, helping talents not only physically but virtually.

I am waiting for Hamilton to do the same, if it is so difficult to be a person of colour to access motosport, why he is not preaching his words and create an academy to search for that talent and help them to overcome those challegings he faced.

Until then is just words and not action to resolve the problem. He has the money, the influence and personal experience to do it. But instead is asking others to do it