Opinion on 2022 regulations

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
djones
djones
18
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:01 pm

Re: Opinion on 2022 regulations

Post

2022 regulations?

Let's be honest, they are a complete failure if the goal was to bring the racing closer and make F1 more fun to watch.

In 2021 we had a season that literally went to the last race. This year we have a big spread between the cars and one manufacturer incredibly dominant to the point where the season was essentially over at the halfway point. I don't care who you support, a 116-point lead with 6 races to go is boring to watch.

All this money the teams have spent on 2022 and for nothing. They should have just left the rules as they were and played around with the tyres to make things more fun. Softer compounds to make every race a guaranteed 2 stop at minimum for example.

Sofa King
Sofa King
0
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:15 pm

Re: Opinion on 2022 regulations

Post

Completely agree, but I would be surprised if F1 and FIA let Red Bull’s complete dominance continue for more than another year as it’s bad for business. That’s not meant to take away from Newey’s genius and Verstappen’s talent, but it’s far less exciting if you know who is going to win each race
djones wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:00 pm
2022 regulations?

Let's be honest, they are a complete failure if the goal was to bring the racing closer and make F1 more fun to watch.

In 2021 we had a season that literally went to the last race. This year we have a big spread between the cars and one manufacturer incredibly dominant to the point where the season was essentially over at the halfway point. I don't care who you support, a 116-point lead with 6 races to go is boring to watch.

All this money the teams have spent on 2022 and for nothing. They should have just left the rules as they were and played around with the tyres to make things more fun. Softer compounds to make every race a guaranteed 2 stop at minimum for example.

User avatar
chrisc90
8
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2022 8:22 pm

Re: Opinion on 2022 regulations

Post

Well the cars can race closer, so the philosophy of the regulations was a success. I imagine when the teams all start to merge others ideas together then the championship standings will be a bit closer.

I mean you could look back at 2014 when we last had a major rule change..... Mercedes finishing on 701pts, followed by Red Bull on 405pts (296pts). 2015 they finished 275pts ahead, 297pts ahead in 2016, 246pts ahead in 2017. Looking back over the hybrid era, 116points (of course it will increase to more) isnt 'that' big of a difference . Previous years before the hybrid turbo era were a bit closer.

For extra reference..

2022: Redbull? +?? pts
2021:Mercedes +28pts
2020:Mercedes +254pts
2019:Mercedes +235pts
2018:Mercedes +84pts
2017: Mercedes +246pts
2016:Mercedes +297pts
2015:Mercedes +275pts
2014: Mercedes +296pts
2013: Redbull +296pts
2012: Redbull +60pts
2011: Redbull +153pts
2010:Redbull +44pts
2009:Mercedes +18.5pts
2008: Ferrari +21pts
2007: Ferrari +103pts
2006: Renault +5pts
2005: Renault +9pts

So, much the same standings/points difference wise, its just a different team that's got the biggest points this season round. I cant see RBR clearing a Mercedes average tally over 7 years of 245points.
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!

User avatar
chrisc90
8
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2022 8:22 pm

Re: Opinion on 2022 regulations

Post

And if you want to go off drivers.....

2022: Verstappen? +?? pts
2021:Verstappen +18pts
2020:Hamilton +124pts
2019:Hamilton +87pts
2018:Hamilton +88pts
2017: Hamilton +46pts
2016:Rosberg +5pts
2015:Hamilton +59pts
2014: Hamilton +67pts
2013: Vettel +155pts
2012: Vettel +3pts
2011: Vettel +122pts
2010:Vettel +14pts

We have seen points difference in drivers from Hamilton and Vettell in 2020 and 2013 respectively.
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!

User avatar
langedweil
1
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:51 pm
Location: Caribbean

Re: Opinion on 2022 regulations

Post

ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:10 pm
The FIA greatly changed the car regs in 2017 for the wide regs, after the 2014 engine change, and then changed the aero regs again in 2019 and then again in 2021(those regs specifically targeted to hurt long wheelbase cars by the reference point of the regulations(front axle versus rear axle)
Well, one could state the 2017/2019 regs were very much aero limiting against RBR who were reeling in the competition (whether it be short wheelbase or higher rake). I even doubt 2021 was that much of a differentiator; before the season there were a lot of voices that expected a bigger loss for RBR, mainly related to ot being harder to seal the floor.
But I agree with Andres; Ham is certainly one of the greats, bit there cannot be a "greatest" one just because of WDC's. You cannot simply compare.

I even saw Gilles drive at Zolder back in '82 .. he was a maniac ! Magnificent era ..
HuggaWugga !

User avatar
langedweil
1
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:51 pm
Location: Caribbean

Re: Opinion on 2022 regulations

Post

djones wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:00 pm
2022 regulations?
All this money the teams have spent on 2022 and for nothing. They should have just left the rules as they were and played around with the tyres to make things more fun. Softer compounds to make every race a guaranteed 2 stop at minimum for example.
New regs have almost always had these same effects; I agree it's way better to change in smaller steps, if they're really needed at all. Best racing develops right then when theams start to converge.
If it ain't broken, just don't fix it.
HuggaWugga !

User avatar
Andres125sx
161
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:15 am
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Opinion on 2022 regulations

Post

djones wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:00 pm
2022 regulations?

Let's be honest, they are a complete failure if the goal was to bring the racing closer and make F1 more fun to watch.

In 2021 we had a season that literally went to the last race. This year we have a big spread between the cars and one manufacturer incredibly dominant to the point where the season was essentially over at the halfway point. I don't care who you support, a 116-point lead with 6 races to go is boring to watch.

All this money the teams have spent on 2022 and for nothing. They should have just left the rules as they were and played around with the tyres to make things more fun. Softer compounds to make every race a guaranteed 2 stop at minimum for example.
Those are different targets. 2022 regulations target was to allow cars to follow each other closer, and that was a success. But any rule change will cause big differences in cars perfomance as different teams take different approaches, but once the season/s progress, cars perfomance start to merge and domination will decrease.


This domination will have short legs I hope, and once some teams are closer the fights will be much more fun to watch as now they can race closer.

User avatar
jjn9128
744
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Opinion on 2022 regulations

Post

Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:29 am
djones wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:00 pm
2022 regulations?

Let's be honest, they are a complete failure if the goal was to bring the racing closer and make F1 more fun to watch.

In 2021 we had a season that literally went to the last race. This year we have a big spread between the cars and one manufacturer incredibly dominant to the point where the season was essentially over at the halfway point. I don't care who you support, a 116-point lead with 6 races to go is boring to watch.

All this money the teams have spent on 2022 and for nothing. They should have just left the rules as they were and played around with the tyres to make things more fun. Softer compounds to make every race a guaranteed 2 stop at minimum for example.
Those are different targets. 2022 regulations target was to allow cars to follow each other closer, and that was a success. But any rule change will cause big differences in cars perfomance as different teams take different approaches, but once the season/s progress, cars perfomance start to merge and domination will decrease.


This domination will have short legs I hope, and once some teams are closer the fights will be much more fun to watch as now they can race closer.
I think my problem with the 22 rules at the moment is while they do allow cars to follow a bit closer, all it's doing is allowing them to be 5-10m ahead into the braking zone with DRS rather than level. Would be interesting to see some DRS-les races at tracks where overtaking is possible and keep it for the Imolas/Monacos where overtaking is nigh impossible.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

User avatar
bauc
32
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:03 am
Location: Skopje, Macedonia

Re: Opinion on 2022 regulations

Post

djones wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:00 pm
2022 regulations?

Let's be honest, they are a complete failure if the goal was to bring the racing closer and make F1 more fun to watch.

In 2021 we had a season that literally went to the last race. This year we have a big spread between the cars and one manufacturer incredibly dominant to the point where the season was essentially over at the halfway point. I don't care who you support, a 116-point lead with 6 races to go is boring to watch.

All this money the teams have spent on 2022 and for nothing. They should have just left the rules as they were and played around with the tyres to make things more fun. Softer compounds to make every race a guaranteed 2 stop at minimum for example.
Completely agree.

P.S Aesthetically as well they have failed to produce sexy looking cars (personal opinion)
Формула 1 на Македонски - The first ever Macedonian Formula 1 YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJkjCv ... 6rVRgKASwg

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
560
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Opinion on 2022 regulations

Post

jjn9128 wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:15 am
Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:29 am
djones wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:00 pm
2022 regulations?

Let's be honest, they are a complete failure if the goal was to bring the racing closer and make F1 more fun to watch.

In 2021 we had a season that literally went to the last race. This year we have a big spread between the cars and one manufacturer incredibly dominant to the point where the season was essentially over at the halfway point. I don't care who you support, a 116-point lead with 6 races to go is boring to watch.

All this money the teams have spent on 2022 and for nothing. They should have just left the rules as they were and played around with the tyres to make things more fun. Softer compounds to make every race a guaranteed 2 stop at minimum for example.
Those are different targets. 2022 regulations target was to allow cars to follow each other closer, and that was a success. But any rule change will cause big differences in cars perfomance as different teams take different approaches, but once the season/s progress, cars perfomance start to merge and domination will decrease.


This domination will have short legs I hope, and once some teams are closer the fights will be much more fun to watch as now they can race closer.
I think my problem with the 22 rules at the moment is while they do allow cars to follow a bit closer, all it's doing is allowing them to be 5-10m ahead into the braking zone with DRS rather than level. Would be interesting to see some DRS-les races at tracks where overtaking is possible and keep it for the Imolas/Monacos where overtaking is nigh impossible.
Isn't the side effect of allowing the cars to follow closer in the corners always going to be more difficulty in overtaking on the straights? Less messed up air hitting the car behind in the corners also means less tow on the straights. So "closer following" was never going to mean "more overtaking" even if the media talking heads kept saying it would.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
71
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:22 am

Re: Opinion on 2022 regulations

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:39 am
jjn9128 wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:15 am
Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:29 am


Those are different targets. 2022 regulations target was to allow cars to follow each other closer, and that was a success. But any rule change will cause big differences in cars perfomance as different teams take different approaches, but once the season/s progress, cars perfomance start to merge and domination will decrease.


This domination will have short legs I hope, and once some teams are closer the fights will be much more fun to watch as now they can race closer.
I think my problem with the 22 rules at the moment is while they do allow cars to follow a bit closer, all it's doing is allowing them to be 5-10m ahead into the braking zone with DRS rather than level. Would be interesting to see some DRS-les races at tracks where overtaking is possible and keep it for the Imolas/Monacos where overtaking is nigh impossible.
Isn't the side effect of allowing the cars to follow closer in the corners always going to be more difficulty in overtaking on the straights? Less messed up air hitting the car behind in the corners also means less tow on the straights. So "closer following" was never going to mean "more overtaking" even if the media talking heads kept saying it would.
What some people miss is that the new regulations are not a fix for cars that are inherently slow in a straight line trying to overtake cars that are the fastest in the speed traps. It doesn't matter what regulations you have if the car is a dog on the straights. Cars like the RB, Alpine, Ferrari have few issues overtaking in the last few weekends even in a place like Hungary! Where we saw just last year a 2.5 seconds faster Hamilton unable to overtake an Alpine. Now look how easily Leclerc went around Russell at the same track this season. They massively benefitting from being able to follow closely out of the final corner at most circuits.
Last edited by AR3-GP on Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
71
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:22 am

Re: Opinion on 2022 regulations

Post

djones wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:00 pm
2022 regulations?

Let's be honest, they are a complete failure if the goal was to bring the racing closer and make F1 more fun to watch.
It doesn't matter what ruleset you have. If there is a discrepancy in aptitude, some teams will build better cars than others. If you want rules that guarantee closeness no matter how terrible the car is, you will enjoy GT3 Balance of Performance racing.

I find most of the whining about being close or being able to overtake tends to come from a certain pov....because a certain team is failing, built a terrible car and is slow on the straights. If people would stop being so blinkered to their favorite team, they would see there is nothing wrong with the regulations.

Cars look fantastic, and can follow closely when similarly matched. Regulations cannot make a slow car overtake a faster one. Regulations cannot make a bad design beat a good design. If there is any failure to point to, it's the team that you like which has failed in one or multiple facets

User avatar
jjn9128
744
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Opinion on 2022 regulations

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:39 am
jjn9128 wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:15 am
Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:29 am


Those are different targets. 2022 regulations target was to allow cars to follow each other closer, and that was a success. But any rule change will cause big differences in cars perfomance as different teams take different approaches, but once the season/s progress, cars perfomance start to merge and domination will decrease.


This domination will have short legs I hope, and once some teams are closer the fights will be much more fun to watch as now they can race closer.
I think my problem with the 22 rules at the moment is while they do allow cars to follow a bit closer, all it's doing is allowing them to be 5-10m ahead into the braking zone with DRS rather than level. Would be interesting to see some DRS-les races at tracks where overtaking is possible and keep it for the Imolas/Monacos where overtaking is nigh impossible.
Isn't the side effect of allowing the cars to follow closer in the corners always going to be more difficulty in overtaking on the straights? Less messed up air hitting the car behind in the corners also means less tow on the straights. So "closer following" was never going to mean "more overtaking" even if the media talking heads kept saying it would.
Yes. One of the side effects is likely a reduction of slipstream. I've always maintained more battles are what's wanted rather than more overtaking. DRS gives us load of overtakes, but they're generally sterile and dull.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

User avatar
Stu
Moderator
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:05 am
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Opinion on 2022 regulations

Post

bauc wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:22 am
djones wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:00 pm
2022 regulations?

Let's be honest, they are a complete failure if the goal was to bring the racing closer and make F1 more fun to watch.

In 2021 we had a season that literally went to the last race. This year we have a big spread between the cars and one manufacturer incredibly dominant to the point where the season was essentially over at the halfway point. I don't care who you support, a 116-point lead with 6 races to go is boring to watch.

All this money the teams have spent on 2022 and for nothing. They should have just left the rules as they were and played around with the tyres to make things more fun. Softer compounds to make every race a guaranteed 2 stop at minimum for example.
Completely agree.

P.S Aesthetically as well they have failed to produce sexy looking cars (personal opinion)
F1 cars haven’t looked ‘good’ since the mid-nineties - imo; up until then they always looked good.
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

User avatar
Zynerji
107
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: Opinion on 2022 regulations

Post

Stu wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:19 pm
bauc wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:22 am
djones wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:00 pm
2022 regulations?

Let's be honest, they are a complete failure if the goal was to bring the racing closer and make F1 more fun to watch.

In 2021 we had a season that literally went to the last race. This year we have a big spread between the cars and one manufacturer incredibly dominant to the point where the season was essentially over at the halfway point. I don't care who you support, a 116-point lead with 6 races to go is boring to watch.

All this money the teams have spent on 2022 and for nothing. They should have just left the rules as they were and played around with the tyres to make things more fun. Softer compounds to make every race a guaranteed 2 stop at minimum for example.
Completely agree.

P.S Aesthetically as well they have failed to produce sexy looking cars (personal opinion)
F1 cars haven’t looked ‘good’ since the mid-nineties - imo; up until then they always looked good.
Today's cars are just too big. 2008 cars with 2022 floors would have been my pick!