2022 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 29 - 31

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chrisc90
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Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: 2022 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 29 - 31

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vanburin wrote:
29 Jul 2022, 15:11
chrisc90 wrote:
29 Jul 2022, 15:04
How shocking to see that being the clip you post out of everything that happened in FP1!
What’s the problem like?

LM10
LM10
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Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 00:07

Re: 2022 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 29 - 31

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basti313 wrote:
29 Jul 2022, 14:07
F1NAC wrote:
29 Jul 2022, 13:39
I wonder what is the drag penalty vs DF gain. And flow structures when hitting flat surface.
It seems to me like a simple "dirty air generator" producing some turbulent flow and vortices. In principle what was done before with a lot of edges and corners, the drag penalty should be similar.
The issue for me is, that this is against the spirit of the rules, the current rules clearly want to reduce this dirty air generation.
Can't read this "against the spirit of the rules" thing anymore. If it's within the rules, it is. It should be simple as that.

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vanburin
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Joined: 28 Feb 2017, 19:33

Re: 2022 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 29 - 31

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CaribouBread wrote:
29 Jul 2022, 15:23

Bit unexpected to see Aston that high, the midfield has more to come it seems :P but wouldn't mind a good weekend for AM :D
The track definitely seemed to be evolving as the session went on. Very intrigued to see how FP2 shakes out, I imagine we'll see a bit of juggling in that middle crop.

Sevach
Sevach
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Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 17:00

Re: 2022 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 29 - 31

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The hard tire seemed very slow in terms of pace.
I coludn't see any distinctive long runs on soft.

dialtone
dialtone
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Joined: 25 Feb 2019, 01:31

Re: 2022 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 29 - 31

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Image

SAI v VER fast lap
* Only 1 8th gear straight and by the RPM it looks like Ferrari's engine is a little turned down
* Ferrari pays 4kph top speed with DRS and loses 0.168 in S1 from VER
* Sainz made the lap with 8 lap old softs vs 3 lap old from VER
* Fast corners are again a clear advantage for Ferrari with corners: 4 (1800m), 8-9 (2600m) and 11 (3100m) where Ferrari goes through better despite the older tires. Obviously possible as well that Verstappen wasn't taking risks here, he may also have made a mistake in T4.
* S3 is about the same for the 2 cars.

bit of race sim between the 2:
SAI:
LAP 19 S/6 Stint 7: 1:31.742
LAP 20 S/13 Stint 7: NaT
LAP 21 S/14 Stint 7: 1:23.232
LAP 22 S/15 Stint 7: 1:23.485
LAP 23 S/16 Stint 7: 1:23.457
LAP 24 S/17 Stint 7: 1:23.264
LAP 25 S/18 Stint 7: NaT
LAP 26 S/19 Stint 7: 1:35.926

VER
LAP 16 S/5 Stint 5: NaT
LAP 17 S/6 Stint 5: 1:23.249
LAP 18 S/7 Stint 5: 1:24.355
LAP 19 S/8 Stint 5: 1:23.967
LAP 20 S/9 Stint 5: 1:23.809
LAP 21 S/10 Stint 5: 1:24.090
LAP 22 S/11 Stint 5: 1:24.188
LAP 23 S/12 Stint 5: NaT
LAP 24 S/13 Stint 5: 1:34.838

I'll compare a lap at random out of these, say lap 23 for SAI and lap 19 for VER, just to see how those times are made up:
Image
* This lap Max has DRS on main straight, however top speed compared to the fast lap if 4kph down
* SAI top speed went from 312kph to 285kph, not using 8th gear at all. Again Ferrari not stressing the engine, but also this track has some of the higher usage of fuel so there is a big difference in how the use the engine in the race, more lift and coast.
* Despite running with 8 laps older softs SAI is still doing better in faster corners like T4 and T11 and is braking better into T6.
* Ferrari S2 is particularly dominant here giving 0.4s to Max.

Image

This is a lap without DRS for either (laps 23 and 21), wanted to see lap 20 but it looks like VER made a mistake on that lap and went long in T6 or something.
* Same features of the previous lap although this time even VER doesn't use 8th gear, but still maintains the higher top speed.

Image
RUS v SAI
* This is just about the same as VER but more pronounced: Ferrari goes through T11 10kph faster and T4 15 (!!) kph faster.
* Merc engine doesn't appear to be as low as Ferrari

I was curious about MAG and the white Ferrari:
Image

Doesn't look like much, it's not engine related why they are so low, S1 they are close, but the fast corners are taken very slowly by Mag (T4 is 26kph slower), T11 is extremely slow, so I think he's just not pushing since that's the only car he has, but it could be setup issues.

Let's see race sims better:
Image

HAM and RUS on Hards, but VER v SAI looks similar on tire deg, but SAI was on 8 laps older tire, hard to know the fuel load although we analyzed a comparison of some of their laps earlier already and because of that I think SAI has an edge.

LEC and PER and NOR didn't do a race sim.

To close it off, how did NOR perform against RUS:
Image

Well, looks a bit like Ferrari, slower on straights (maybe downforce but I see him shifting later in the main straight) and much faster in corners.

yamahasho
yamahasho
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Re: 2022 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 29 - 31

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Turn 4 live shots with Brundle were good.

Poor Mercedes. Looks like 7 and 8 for them.
Supercharged Ford Taurus SHO 5spd. Sold.
BMW 335i, N54 6spd tuned with tunerPro

sunny1304r
sunny1304r
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Re: 2022 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 29 - 31

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Merc fans (who thought they will be the strongest here) : Mercedes is sandbagging .......

djones
djones
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Re: 2022 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 29 - 31

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sunny1304r wrote:
29 Jul 2022, 17:40
Merc fans (who thought they will be the strongest here) : Mercedes is sandbagging .......
Literally, nobody thought that about this race.

The next race however is where the tables may very well turn.

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vanburin
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Joined: 28 Feb 2017, 19:33

Re: 2022 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 29 - 31

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sunny1304r wrote:
29 Jul 2022, 17:40
Merc fans (who thought they will be the strongest here) : Mercedes is sandbagging .......
Lewis was just on a faster lap (a good half a second up on his fastest time to that point) when he got completely blocked by Norris. Merc looks to be in that 5th/6th mix right now in one-lap pace, so status quo.

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nico5
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Re: 2022 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 29 - 31

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Ferrari doing 23.4s when Max cannot get below 24 but Sam Collins can only talk about how bad they are. Super competent guy

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nico5
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Joined: 12 Mar 2017, 18:55

Re: 2022 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 29 - 31

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nico5 wrote:
29 Jul 2022, 17:58
Ferrari doing 23.4s when Max cannot get below 24 but Sam Collins can only talk about how bad they are. Super competent guy
Now also mega praising Macca disregarding the fact they're 0.3 faster than anybody in the only power-limited sector (0.5 off in S2) despite being the draggiest car and now 1.2s off in the long run. Guess why they're P2, P5?

CaribouBread
CaribouBread
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Re: 2022 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 29 - 31

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Image

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Sieper
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Re: 2022 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 29 - 31

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Sam Collins has very little comprehension of what is actually going on, yet, has a huge podium.

Watto
Watto
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Re: 2022 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 29 - 31

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Ferarri looked very very good here, very comfortable on a lap.

dialtone
dialtone
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Re: 2022 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 29 - 31

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Image

LEC v NOR FP2:
* This is a good lap from Norris.
* One peculiar aspect of this lap is Ferrari's braking, Norris braking in the lap is very similar to what VER does, but Ferrari brakes a lot harder than them. Perhaps Leclerc can let more speed through during braking.
* Speed curve looks better as well for the MCL, might mean less downforce on MCL.
* Engine wise, usually Mercs have higher RPM than Ferrari and RedBull even at same engine mode. They look a little higher even here but I'm not sure MCL is doing glory runs.
* Only one thing that could be there is lower fuel load, but honestly it looks like a good lap.
* S2 NOR pays basically 0.5s, probably not helped by the lower DF

Image

LEC v VER FP2:
* Looks like same engine mode between RBR and FER this time around, RPM in 8th gear look the same.
* VER a bit slower than he should be upshifting so some margin there
* I would wager that compared to FP1, RBR added some downforce, yes Ferrari may have upped the engine a bit, but it's hard to gain a lot of kph above 300, and top speed now is just 1kph apart, actually in favor of LEC, so there's 5kph difference between now and FP1.
* RBR improved their S2 dramatically, going from losing 0.4 to losing just 0.2, but now instead of gaining 0.168 in S1 they lost 0.08s there, largely thanks to a much better T2 from LEC without any loss in the straights. S3 still virtually identical.
* Even with these changes, Ferrari remains faster in the corners of S2 and T4 and T11 Ferrari is faster by 6kph and 5kph respectively. VER complained about vibrations in those 2 corners as well.
* T6-7 look much improved on VER compared to FP1, although the whole section T5-6-7 looks very different between LEC and VER, they either have a very different approach here or VER can improve a bit on the straight from T5 to T6, but in the telemetry he looks to struggle to put down the accelerator, having to lift slightly at the exit of T5.
* Cars look closer than they were in FP1 for sure.

Image
RUS v NOR FP2
* RUS had struggle through T1 during the session somehow, losing a bunch of time, also had to brake mid main straight for some reason. Also T2 is a big loss of time, has to brake earlier than NOR and harder. Maybe not too confident on the brakes.
* T4 seems to be another struggle for RUS (and HAM left track 2 or 3 times in T4). Norris is 16kph faster through there. It's possible NOR is lighter on fuel than RUS as well, but it just seems that Merc is more of a handful on fast corners.

Image
LEC v RUS
* Well the difference in T4 is massive here and also decently sized in T11.
* 0.7s loss in S2 mostly in the high speed corners points to this car still being tough to adjust to both slow and high speed, they can only pick one.

race sim from the top FP2 drivers
Image

* HAM could only do one meaningful lap in race sim, I think he kept going off in T4 or maybe traffic or something.
* RUS didn't look particularly good on the medium, although good tire degradation the pace was slow. He also had the younger medium tire of the lot here at 8 laps.
* ALO with some serious tire degradation slightly faster than Merc in the race sim, but in the long run that tire degradation will make them lose places.
* PER and VER had similar tire degradation but their pace was sort of slow with an average pace of 1.24.7 and 1.24.4. It's a bit unusual seeing them in the middle of the pack because normally they are much better in race sim, I wouldn't worry too much honestly, they aren't 1s back, they also have similar tire deg as Ferrari although going a bit slower favors degradation a bit, over so few laps it's not that significant the difference.
* NOR and RIC going with the soft, NOR has to cool the tire every other lap to keep temperatures in check and he's going through some degradation. RIC must have been in traffic. Overall though they aren't too shabby here either. They should be happy about their package.
* Ferrari looks to be top of the class, doesn't look like today they are playing the same engine down mode as they did in FP2 in France, the 2 cars look to have tried 2 different ways of going in the race (fast first vs slow first) to see how the tire behaves wrt degradation and it looks in line with what RBR has.

IMHO Ferrari is stronger but it's not 1s/lap stronger.