2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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mwillems
mwillems
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Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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mendis wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:14 am
Mosin123 wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:48 am
Why are you excluding Horner from this? He is the biggest hate bringer on the grid and in sport in gerneral, did you see the hate he caused when he claimed LH tried to kill Max even though he is in a f1 car that can go head first into a barrier go bang and a driver walk out barely hurt ( Minus a few burns ofc ) He is the instigator in his own backlash, as a Ferrari fan, Redbull and Horner and Marko and even Max's double standards grate on people. Even more so when their fans seem to think its every body else, its not, Redbull has caused its own issues and is now trying to blame every one else...... Eg when max rams some one off track its just hard racing, when its any body else, its " they was trying tro kill max crap, we even frabricated some evidence for you with our reserve driver that cant even get a seat in f1 " LOL Come on...

Nothing Ted said was wrong, you should spend an evening listening to footballs pundits tearing into teams, players , managers, and refs........ F1 gets it easy when compared to sports with more integrity. Horners behavour wouldnt even be accepted in Rugby for instance, or Cricket, or golf, or track field, or baseball, american football blah blah blah. Didnt he once set Redbull and Max fans upon a mashall who dedicated his weekend to work for free to allow them to race / practise / qualify?. That marshall had to go into hiding because of Redbulls remarks towards him.....

I have exactly 0 sympathy for Redbull.
It's really hard to continue in an argument when the post clearly spells the bias. You completely missed the point when started with attacking Horner. Your last statement sums it up. Period.
As far football is concerned, in my opinion, everything associated with Football, the players' behavior, the referees' bias, the madness of the fans is so far removed from civilization that using such a tragedy as a reference is really quite poor.
Wether he is biased or not, his points are not wrong in my view. This is how Horner behaves. To be fair Horner behaves in the same way as any team principal at the front, he will bias to his team and driver. But Horner does it to a higher degree to the point that it is a little ridiculous, and coupled with a petty enjoyment of childish digs. Even football is moving past this to a degree, of all things! So how is it we are still seeing this in F1?

And I do think this has the "Trump" effect and I do see him in that way a little. You can see how happy he is with his petty bickering with Renault, the remarks, slights, outright petty insults just for the pleasure. He has stated that he loves to get under Toto's skin and watch him get upset. SO I guess if you are going to be more antagonistic than everyone else, it's no surprise that many won't like you.

It's not hard to find articles like this one:

https://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/fr/ ... 68932.html

This was in the off season (March), Merc were moving on and not getting involved any more with the debate and not stoking the rivalry, and here is Horner with several digs about Wolfs tax status, questioning whether he is a racer, Selling up to buy another yacth etc It is designed to polarise and to upset, and here we are.


I remember the days when they were the fun team about not taking it too seriously and having that fun and different brand. It's very different now he's at the front of the grid.
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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dans79
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Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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mwillems wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 3:33 pm
SO I guess if you are going to be more antagonistic than everyone else, it's no surprise that many won't like you.
Exactly, and you will eventually end up having to deal with the consequences of your actions.
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mendis
mendis
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Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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mwillems wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 3:33 pm
mendis wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:14 am
And I do think this has the "Trump" effect and I do see him in that way a little. You can see how happy he is with his petty bickering with Renault, the remarks, slights, outright petty insults just for the pleasure. He has stated that he loves to get under Toto's skin and watch him get upset. SO I guess if you are going to be more antagonistic than everyone else, it's no surprise that many won't like you.
Once again, missing the point by miles. Exact same thing the other poster did.

mwillems
mwillems
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Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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Mosin123 wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:48 am
mendis wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 3:53 am
dans79 wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 2:46 am


This bit pretty much sums it up.




It kind of reminds me of a saying I once heard. "If you go looking for war, eventually you'll find one."
Earlier this week Matthew Syed took Horner to task in the Times, accusing him of gracelessness and gaslighting. “How dare the Red Bull principal deploy sensitive moral issues such as bullying and mental health to deflect from his own rule-breaking,” Syed wrote.
wife of Red Bull technical director Adrian Newey took to Twitter to castigate Syed. “What qualifies you to judge me, my husband’s or any member or family member of Red Bull’s mental state?,” she wrote. “Provoking the fans with toxic journalism adds to the problem.”
This here clearly shows, stupid people hold pen and live in a bubble of their own righteousness. The author has no understanding of the situation of people in a team and goes attacking the team principal, only to be schooled by family of that team's member. The guy seems too shallow to understand that due the mistakes of a handful people in Red Bull, close to thousand other team members are going through bullying and attacks and suffering with mental health issues, which should be an obvious matter of concern for the leader of the team and as such he highlights it.

People in journalism build and feed bad narratives and when someone affected questions it, they try gaslighting them, just because they can. I have zero regards for such stupid people like Ted and the author above that doesn't know their own sh*t and are so oblivious to the consequences innocent people have to suffer due to their irresponsible words.
Why are you excluding Horner from this? He is the biggest hate bringer on the grid and in sport in gerneral, did you see the hate he caused when he claimed LH tried to kill Max even though he is in a f1 car that can go head first into a barrier go bang and a driver walk out barely hurt ( Minus a few burns ofc ) He is the instigator in his own backlash, as a Ferrari fan, Redbull and Horner and Marko and even Max's double standards grate on people. Even more so when their fans seem to think its every body else, its not, Redbull has caused its own issues and is now trying to blame every one else...... Eg when max rams some one off track its just hard racing, when its any body else, its " they was trying tro kill max crap, we even frabricated some evidence for you with our reserve driver that cant even get a seat in f1 " LOL Come on...

Nothing Ted said was wrong, you should spend an evening listening to footballs pundits tearing into teams, players , managers, and refs........ F1 gets it easy when compared to sports with more integrity. Horners behavour wouldnt even be accepted in Rugby for instance, or Cricket, or golf, or track field, or baseball, american football blah blah blah. Didnt he once set Redbull and Max fans upon a mashall who dedicated his weekend to work for free to allow them to race / practise / qualify?. That marshall had to go into hiding because of Redbulls remarks towards him.....

I have exactly 0 sympathy for Redbull.
Not only did he get the fans riled up about the "rogue" marshall, because it wasn't handled the way he wanted, but of course it was a different situation at the season finale, when the significantly more important non marshall of Masi, go significantly more rogue.

Of course it's racing and Max is a deserved champion , Masi is getting a tough ride etc.... I mean... I dislike this man a lot. I wish Audi did by RB and get them out of the sport.

I'm a Mclaren fan and I'd rather watch Ferrari win than RB. I'm not even a fan of Lewis and have never celebrated his titles (Apart from 1!), but the manner of which RB antagonise, push the rules further than anyone else, get more petty with snide digs and potshots... At least with Wolf you can see he's annoyed, with Horner you can see it's calculated, and that is the most dislikeable thing. He's not losing control in the moment as some TPs or Drivers do, he's choosing to be like that. It's who he is.
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

mwillems
mwillems
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Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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mendis wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 4:01 pm
mwillems wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 3:33 pm
mendis wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:14 am
And I do think this has the "Trump" effect and I do see him in that way a little. You can see how happy he is with his petty bickering with Renault, the remarks, slights, outright petty insults just for the pleasure. He has stated that he loves to get under Toto's skin and watch him get upset. SO I guess if you are going to be more antagonistic than everyone else, it's no surprise that many won't like you.
Once again, missing the point by miles. Exact same thing the other poster did.
No I have a different opinion, I appreciate yours and I'm telling you mine.

Horner invites and fuels that toxic press both directly and indirectly.
If he doesn't like the polarising attitude towards his team, stop making his team have a polarising voice towards everyone else, one that clearly enjoys belittling and petty remarks.

Interestingly I decided to have a google about Horner and his pettiness and it isn't an English media thing, it seems like it is generally viewed the same around many of the worlds media, that he will almost never resist a dig.
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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dans79
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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mwillems wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 4:05 pm
If he doesn't like the polarising attitude towards his team, stop making his team have a polarising voice towards everyone else, one that clearly enjoys belittling and petty remarks.
Yep and here is an example, from August of this year!
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/124357/h ... -them.html
"Toto is Toto," Horner judged. "Of course when you're competing, and last year was so intense and of course it was the first time he'd ever been in that situation, it's always interesting to see how people react. And when they're smashing headphones and so on, you can see that you got to them."
edit or this comment:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formula- ... n-28001932
Horner, who has led Red Bull since it entered the sport in 2005, will be a very happy man to be back on top of the F1 world. And while he admits it is "unlikely" his team will repeat such a period of dominance, he certainly wouldn't mind that happening.

"I can only wish to inflict that amount of pain on Toto over the next eight years," he told Sky Sports F1. "It is very unlikely. We've just had a wonderful year and the team are performing at a very high level right now. But Ferrari are fast and Mercedes are getting back on their feet."
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TimW
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Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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Nice polarized thread and ditto posters

Something with pot and kettle

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Wouter
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Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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TimW wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 4:24 pm
Nice polarized thread and ditto posters

Something with pot and kettle
.
Exactly!
The Power of Honda!

mendis
mendis
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Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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mwillems wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 4:05 pm
mendis wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 4:01 pm
mwillems wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 3:33 pm

And I do think this has the "Trump" effect and I do see him in that way a little. You can see how happy he is with his petty bickering with Renault, the remarks, slights, outright petty insults just for the pleasure. He has stated that he loves to get under Toto's skin and watch him get upset. SO I guess if you are going to be more antagonistic than everyone else, it's no surprise that many won't like you.
Once again, missing the point by miles. Exact same thing the other poster did.
No I have a different opinion, I appreciate yours and I'm telling you mine.

Horner invites and fuels that toxic press both directly and indirectly.
If he doesn't like the polarising attitude towards his team, stop making his team have a polarising voice towards everyone else, one that clearly enjoys belittling and petty remarks.

Interestingly I decided to have a google about Horner and his pettiness and it isn't an English media thing, it seems like it is generally viewed the same around many of the worlds media, that he will almost never resist a dig.
I am not out here to defend Horner. But let me tell you a big difference. Horner is a Red Bull employee, his actions and work is all for Red Bull. The personnel in media are expected to be responsible, neutral and impartial as they are required to present the news of ongoing, not use the medium to air their personal, polarizing opinions that can have serious consequences to innocent people that work in a place like Red Bull. When irresponsible people in media starts riling up fans to resort to aggressive actions, one can't hold Horner responsible for such media behavior. Anyone in the media that is personally invested against a team and airs such personal opinions using their professional platform, should be terminated.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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It has defiantly become tribal. What happened to 'well done, but I support another team', see you for the return match next year.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

Soalar
Soalar
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Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2022 9:47 pm

Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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Big Tea wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 5:35 pm
It has defiantly become tribal. What happened to 'well done, but I support another team', see you for the return match next year.
Sadly that reality died not that long ago on this forum. Drive tot survive and media sensationalism are not helping in this regard.

In don't envy the amount of work the mods have here. These threads should be closed immediately, time and again it's clear that civil discussions are impossible to have.

Mosin123
Mosin123
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Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2022 4:03 pm

Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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mendis wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 4:50 pm
mwillems wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 4:05 pm
mendis wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 4:01 pm
Once again, missing the point by miles. Exact same thing the other poster did.
No I have a different opinion, I appreciate yours and I'm telling you mine.

Horner invites and fuels that toxic press both directly and indirectly.
If he doesn't like the polarising attitude towards his team, stop making his team have a polarising voice towards everyone else, one that clearly enjoys belittling and petty remarks.

Interestingly I decided to have a google about Horner and his pettiness and it isn't an English media thing, it seems like it is generally viewed the same around many of the worlds media, that he will almost never resist a dig.
I am not out here to defend Horner. But let me tell you a big difference. Horner is a Red Bull employee, his actions and work is all for Red Bull. The personnel in media are expected to be responsible, neutral and impartial as they are required to present the news of ongoing, not use the medium to air their personal, polarizing opinions that can have serious consequences to innocent people that work in a place like Red Bull. When irresponsible people in media starts riling up fans to resort to aggressive actions, one can't hold Horner responsible for such media behavior. Anyone in the media that is personally invested against a team and airs such personal opinions using their professional platform, should be terminated.
You do know a Pundit is employed to give his / her opinion not report the news on sky news right? Ted is not employed as a reporter, he is a sky sports pundit. They are two different media roles.
Last edited by Mosin123 on Fri Nov 04, 2022 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Wouter
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Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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Soalar wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 5:55 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 5:35 pm
It has defiantly become tribal. What happened to 'well done, but I support another team', see you for the return match next year.
.
Sadly that reality died not that long ago on this forum. Drive tot survive and media sensationalism are not helping in this regard.

In don't envy the amount of work the mods have here. These threads should be closed immediately, time and again it's clear that civil discussions are impossible to have.
.
You mean something like: "Yes sir, I like to discuss the cheaters with you in a decent/civil way." :lol:
The Power of Honda!

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langedweil
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Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:51 pm
Location: Caribbean

Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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Hey, something completely off-topic, but I feel it's more important than where this thread had been heading (but since a lot of ppl are residing here); is there any news about the Brazil GP next week ? The Bolsonaro loss apparently is causing some disturbance, with road blocks, rage etc ?
HuggaWugga !

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Big Tea
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Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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Wouter wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 6:15 pm
Soalar wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 5:55 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 5:35 pm
It has defiantly become tribal. What happened to 'well done, but I support another team', see you for the return match next year.
.
Sadly that reality died not that long ago on this forum. Drive tot survive and media sensationalism are not helping in this regard.

In don't envy the amount of work the mods have here. These threads should be closed immediately, time and again it's clear that civil discussions are impossible to have.
.
You mean something like: "Yes sir, I like to discuss the cheaters with you in a decent/civil way." :lol:
No, I mean like we have all had our say, let it go, you can not fix it.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.