2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[ValeVida46]

But, and its a big BUT, this sport along with the participants has relentlessly pushed into self promotion, information and viewer involvement, it's extremely niave to not offer competent presentation to that enhanced audience at this point of very high interest.

If true, then that is true universally. Not of any 1 specific team.

They, MB, are making a complete pantomime of this whole era, is that intentionally presented or pretty amateur ?
They did make a pantomime camel of a car in performance terms though, so maybe this is entirely appropriate.

Or inappropriate, because to my reckoning that would make the vast majority of teams pantomime camel car makers.
But there's no sport in approaching this thread constructively by certain members as where's the fun in that right?
We have 148 pages of how Toto is terrible and Mercedes don't know arse from elbow, liars and pantomime camel car makers. I believe last years team thread was pretty horrific too. Reading that you'd never guess Mercedes finished third in the constructors standings.

Open season though, as you were Farnborough

[Farnborough]

My point is that they aren't technically incompetent, stupid or any other of the critique levelled at them.

But they are playing, significantly, a detrimental tune that many will pick up and run with, that is in their control.

They state that they're not there to finish 3rd, that's negative of their own making, when they don't win.

Keep making definitive statement as to performance (recently changed to be more moderate) and non technical leads like "we need to bring out the goodness we know is in the car" gives huge scope for the general consensus to be made up to whatever the Internet feels like. That's the reality of a public facing sport today.

Someone there needs to properly get hold of narrative issued on their behalf and feed realistic view to the many that are genuinely interested.

[continuum16]

…

Or inappropriate, because to my reckoning that would make the vast majority of teams pantomime camel car makers.
But there's no sport in approaching this thread constructively by certain members as where's the fun in that right?
We have 148 pages of how Toto is terrible and Mercedes don't know arse from elbow, liars and pantomime camel car makers. I believe last years team thread was pretty horrific too. Reading that you'd never guess Mercedes finished third in the constructors standings.

I would agree 100% with the above statement.

The main thing is the expectation put on the team not only by fans but also themselves. If “anything other than first is a failure” then finishing third must, therefore, be seen as a failure. When a team (or indeed anyone even in daily life) fails to meet its expectations, they can either say “we should have been better” or “we could have been worse.”

IMO comments like the 2023 Bahrain GP was “our most painful day as a team” serve no purpose, because clearly that can’t be true, and only serve to fuel the spiral of media and possibly even internal negativity. I mean, surely that’s not worse tha. Spain 2016, or the day Lauda passed away, or whatever else. It’s so obscene that I find it best to dismiss it because it’s clearly sensationalized.

McLaren has grappled with this expectations problem for a whole decade and continues to do so today. Mercedes has only recently encountered this dilemma for the first time since 2013.

There seems to be an idea that acceptance = complacency in F1. As a result, teams and especially fans more often than not tend to avoid accepting their failures for fear they will be seen as giving up, even though that should not be the case.

I’ve followed other racing series for a long time (longer than F1 even) and while my favorite team hasn’t won titles in a very long time, and I’m not expecting them to *this year* I still believe they could do so again. People (not necessarily people here but the general populous) just need to see things on a longer timeline than 1-2 races.

[ValeVida46]

I would agree 100% with the above statement.

The main thing is the expectation put on the team not only by fans but also themselves. If “anything other than first is a failure” then finishing third must, therefore, be seen as a failure. When a team (or indeed anyone even in daily life) fails to meet its expectations, they can either say “we should have been better” or “we could have been worse.”

IMO comments like the 2023 Bahrain GP was “our most painful day as a team” serve no purpose, because clearly that can’t be true, and only serve to fuel the spiral of media and possibly even internal negativity. I mean, surely that’s not worse tha. Spain 2016, or the day Lauda passed away, or whatever else. It’s so obscene that I find it best to dismiss it because it’s clearly sensationalized.

McLaren has grappled with this expectations problem for a whole decade and continues to do so today. Mercedes has only recently encountered this dilemma for the first time since 2013.

There seems to be an idea that acceptance = complacency in F1. As a result, teams and especially fans more often than not tend to avoid accepting their failures for fear they will be seen as giving up, even though that should not be the case.

I’ve followed other racing series for a long time (longer than F1 even) and while my favorite team hasn’t won titles in a very long time, and I’m not expecting them to *this year* I still believe they could do so again. People (not necessarily people here but the general populous) just need to see things on a longer timeline than 1-2 races.

Of course I think everything needs to be contextualised. Anything taken in microcosm can be amplified to push an agenda, the sidepod thing for example. And agree with your post too. It really is just a natural progression that has ebbed and flowed in the sport and in life since the dawn of time.
When you're out of form and get a microphone planted in front of your face, fans and detractors will live or die on every word uttered. It's a shame but I'd hope that a technical forum would be less responsive to the chaff.
Only it seems just as divisive as social media unfortunately. Also wishing your chosen team luck in finding their from again.

My point is that they aren't technically incompetent, stupid or any other of the critique levelled at them.

But they are playing, significantly, a detrimental tune that many will pick up and run with, that is in their control.

They state that they're not there to finish 3rd, that's negative of their own making, when they don't win.

Keep making definitive statement as to performance (recently changed to be more moderate) and non technical leads like "we need to bring out the goodness we know is in the car" gives huge scope for the general consensus to be made up to whatever the Internet feels like. That's the reality of a public facing sport today.

Someone there needs to properly get hold of narrative issued on their behalf and feed realistic view to the many that are genuinely interested.

Again it is pretty specific and tailored only to this team. How can Mercedes be anymore guilty of a detrimental tune than say, Ferrari? In November Binotto said Ferrari would challenge Red Bull in 2023. You reckon the Ferrari team thread gets even 20% of the flack that this would get if Wolf said that?
When quoting a statement of "bringing the goodness out the car", its pertinent to what is being said about set up.
You have to admit that bagging pole position in Oz and running strongly in one race and then not at another must leave the engineers in a quandry. That would mess with any team. As there are a ton of variables, they need to be mastered and a sweet spot needs to be found.
Like I said in the previous post, when viewed through a negative prism, it's really easy to kick a team.
Constructive criticism is cool but cmon man, you have to admit the stuff that gets posted here verges on really unhealthy.

[Farnborough]

Its a discussion about the MB team in a section of the forum created for that purpose. Where else would that reside?

It has absolutely nothing to do with Ferrari or anything else of another team.

[AR3-GP]

This upgrade package is exciting stuff. This budget cap era doesn't give us much to look at. Teams are being very miserly with development.

[organic]

This upgrade package is exciting stuff. This budget cap era doesn't give us much to look at. Teams are being very miserly with development.

Yes. It is a huge visual difference, but it seems the rumoured laptime gain may not reflect the significant bodywork change. Rather this large upgrade tells us where Mercedes are going now with the W15.

Others (amr, Ferrari) will be putting their development efforts into smaller more fruitful changes to the floor, as we've seen since the beginning of 2022. The floor edges and fences have changed relatively little since Bahrain '22 yet laptimes improve by over a second.. so the update's scope shows their intent to improve for 2024/2025 and not push the w14 as hard for laptime as they could in the short-term.

It'll also be interesting to see if the significant change to the front suspension will affect the Russell/ham dynamic. Their performance is very close and the change may swayy things one way or another. Hamilton has been very vocal about the w13/w14 not feeling like a race car to him whilst Russell has been happier so perhaps this update will make ham happier. On the other hand, the extreme anti-dive may not be as beneficial to a driver such as Hamilton who typically brakes very late

[AR3-GP]

It'll also be interesting to see if the significant change to the front suspension will affect the Russell/ham dynamic. The extreme anti-dive may not be as beneficial to a driver such as Hamilton who typically brakes very late and very hard.

Imo, the "story" about anti-dive creating significantly different braking feel for the driver was blown out of proportion.

[organic]

It'll also be interesting to see if the significant change to the front suspension will affect the Russell/ham dynamic. The extreme anti-dive may not be as beneficial to a driver such as Hamilton who typically brakes very late and very hard.

Imo, the "story" about anti-dive creating significantly different braking feel for the driver was blown out of proportion.

Most likely, but still a narrative ahead of Monaco - supposedly the "driver's track" - that I will entertain

[continuum16]

The irony is that there has been a lot of division over whether the suspension or the sidepods are the issue, and they’ve changed them both at once so we’ll never know which was more of a problem

[AR3-GP]

The irony is that there has been a lot of division over whether the suspension or the sidepods are the issue, and they’ve changed them both at once so we’ll never know which was more of a problem

They have no idea how frustrating that will be for the us on this forum

[organic]

The irony is that there has been a lot of division over whether the suspension or the sidepods are the issue, and they’ve changed them both at once so we’ll never know which was more of a problem

I will cling to the hope that one of them gets reverted to previous spec...

[chrisc90]

What was the video that either Kyle or Shub done that showed how the pressure acted on top and below a sidepod intake? Im sure ive seen it somewhere and that the pressure acts differently/flow different at the lip of the sidepod (hence the RB has a longer lower section).

It will be interesting to see how that would play out given the top is now (presumably) closed in to the midwing

[Vaexa]

It'll also be interesting to see if the significant change to the front suspension will affect the Russell/ham dynamic. The extreme anti-dive may not be as beneficial to a driver such as Hamilton who typically brakes very late and very hard.

Imo, the "story" about anti-dive creating significantly different braking feel for the driver was blown out of proportion.

The whole anti-dive thing is a frustrating bit of journalist lore, much like Mercedes' magical squatting suspension in 2021 (you know, the same general principle the entire grid bar I think Marussia ran since the mid-2000s). A lot of it originates from Reddit (wrongest opinions on the internet) or F1's own tech talk show which needs to create talking points in a way the average viewer will understand.

[ValeVida46]

Its a discussion about the MB team in a section of the forum created for that purpose. Where else would that reside?

It has absolutely nothing to do with Ferrari or anything else of another team.

It absolutely does as a comparative point. They are all team threads. You don't operate under a different set of rules for a differing team thread. And if so, maybe we found the problem.
Why does the Ferrari thread get a free pass from statements made by their team, but Mercedes do not because of statement made by their team?

Alpine make statements every year about challenging for wins consistently as their goal. This is the standard they hold themselves to.
Ferrari made statements about challenging Red Bull for wins this year. The standard they hold themselves to.
I could literally go on and on for every single team.

So the common denomination is that they all hold themselves to lofty targets. Mercedes are no different.
The greater point is why would anyone who feels negatively about this team, feel it necessary to be the most contributed thread they post in?

Anyhow done posting on the matter, if mods are cool with it who am I to bring this to attention.