2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Hammerfist
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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The idea that you are a fair wearher fan because you criticize your favorite driver or team is just laughable and plain dumb. You guys should learn about objectiveness.
While i consider myself a big lewis fan i am in no way shape of form part of a cult. Nowadays around the world it seems trendy to be part of a cult and rubbish any valid criticism about the so called cult leader. We see it with the maga fan club, the muskrats, and of course the so called team lh. Grow the f up. Lewis did not drive well the past couple of weekends and some weekends before that. That’s just facts.

CHT
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Incognito wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 12:46 am
CHT wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 4:13 pm
Totally agree. LH didn't have a fantastic or flawless year either and being 7WDC, no one will fault him. like today he finished behind Yuki in a car that is good to finish on the podium. When LH was 25 years old, I remember him making many mistakes too, which is why LH himself never scored very well in terms of most race win in a season.
Hamilton had a couple of nigh-flawless seasons at his peak. The reason he never scored the sort of race win numbers Verstappen has is because Hamilton almost always had a WDC in the other car who had a free licence to race him, rather than going up against a midfield wannabee or a bunch of RBR academy failures who have to leap out of the way from the first race onwards. And, despite the mistakes, I don't remember him being dumpstered by a Ricciardo-level driver for multiple seasons :-k
Rosberg was lucky to have won the WDC by a thin margin because of LH's inconsistency, and Nico was smart to quit after that 1 hit to preserve his legacy as an unbeaten WDC. Personally, I don't consider Bottas a WDC-caliber driver although he is reliable.

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denyall
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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There is nothing wrong with objective criticism... IMO that was obvious, perhaps not.. My comment was not an attack against criticism.

Calling for Toto to resign, unfounded speculation that Merc seeks an exit, or the idea that Hamilton is washed and not deserving of his seat and/or can't take the fight to Max are the kinds of hot takes I attribute to the "Fairweather Fan". A lot of discussion has been these ideas in some form of veil.

Many here have made excellent arguments against all of these.


f1jcw
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 3:59 pm
Enjoy the fake P2 Toto, no sportsmanship award for you. We won't forget the Vegas bs
Why do you continue to repeat this falsehood.

1. It’s not even true.
2. I can’t remember Ferrari helping them at anytime in AD21

Luscion
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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f1jcw wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 1:38 am
Vanja #66 wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 3:59 pm
Enjoy the fake P2 Toto, no sportsmanship award for you. We won't forget the Vegas bs
Why do you continue to repeat this falsehood.

1. It’s not even true.
2. I can’t remember Ferrari helping them at anytime in AD21
if this is about Ferrari getting the 10 grid place penalty idk why people think Merc that anything to do it with,well i guess i do know, it was Crofty who said one team had rejected the chance for the stewards to explore this route, with strong hints made that Mercedes, so Ted went to Merc to ask and they said they didnt block Sainz and that it was to the discretion of the stewards, the stewards gave him the penalty stating that they would have not applied it if they could but the rules are the rules

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... ieve-block

this is what Zak Brown said about it and people immediately jumped to it being Merc

"'Yes, that is unfortunate. We know with Formula 1, there is a lot of self-interest from time to time. But I think you do need something like that. But yeah, it is a little bit unfortunate and a little bit unfair. I don't know who it was, but probably someone at odds with them," Brown concluded."
Last edited by Luscion on Mon Nov 27, 2023 4:44 am, edited 2 times in total.

mendis
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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While George is being bashed, by saying Lewis outperformed him, a crucial fact gets neglected. A full blown upgrade package was built to make Lewis comfortable with the car, as Shovlin himself said. After that upgrade, George was on the backfoot as it didn't go in his direction of liking the car's feel. He took time to adapt again.

j_ste
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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mendis wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 4:20 am
While George is being bashed, by saying Lewis outperformed him, a crucial fact gets neglected. A full blown upgrade package was built to make Lewis comfortable with the car, as Shovlin himself said. After that upgrade, George was on the backfoot as it didn't go in his direction of liking the car's feel. He took time to adapt again.
An update package that largely didnt achieve what Lewis wanted it to. They were always compromised by the chassis they started the season with...the general issue of Lewis struugling with the rear of the car, has been constant from day one to day yesterday.

The one race all year that the car came alive as a genuine threat...they got DQ'd.

As George has said a few times. They havent been on the same pace all year...very up and down. Hopefully that changes

AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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j_ste wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 4:27 am
mendis wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 4:20 am
While George is being bashed, by saying Lewis outperformed him, a crucial fact gets neglected. A full blown upgrade package was built to make Lewis comfortable with the car, as Shovlin himself said. After that upgrade, George was on the backfoot as it didn't go in his direction of liking the car's feel. He took time to adapt again.
An update package that largely didnt achieve what Lewis wanted it to. They were always compromised by the chassis they started the season with...the general issue of Lewis struugling with the rear of the car, has been constant from day one to day yesterday.
I remember at the time (Monaco), and you can flip back several pages in the thread to see it, but any time anyone dared to suggest that the upgrades were not amazing, there was a lot of push back by some here. Any post that wasn't positive was being reported to the moderators. Of course now many have given up on that and are calling it what it is. "Good riddance to the W14". It is at least refreshing to see some acknowledgment of the upgrades seemingly not giving all that was expected and the Mercedes upgrades were numerous. They were one of the teams with the most upgrades according to the tracking information that is shared here so it is perplexing.

Hamilton was having a nightmare with the car this weekend and at the end of the day, the car needs to work for him and Mercedes will keep throwing the kitchen sink at it until it does, regardless of how Russell is doing. Hamilton's 8th is what makes the numbers.

In the end, Hamilton and Toto were completely drained of the PR spins and couldn't be bothered to sugarcoat it anymore. Just like Hamilton said, this has to be the most amazing winter that Mercedes has ever had in their history if they hope to challenge for the title next season.

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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f1jcw wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 1:38 am
Why do you continue to repeat this falsehood.

1. It’s not even true.
Repeating merc PR bs is not gonna make it true.

https://www.racefans.net/2023/11/18/sai ... row-start/

The stewards turned down Ferrari’s request, saying they do not have the power to derogate the regulations. However Sainz believes they could have done so had rival teams not applied pressure to ensure a penalty would be given.
***
"For sure there will be rival teams pushing for me to get a penalty which surprises me in a way. In another [way], I’ve been in the sport for too long to understand that this business… there’s too much money involved in the finishing position in the constructors’ or whatever for a team not to threaten to apply for a penalty for me."
The FIA Code gives stewards the authority, under 11.9.3.g to ‘decide to suspend any penalty in accordance with Article 12.2.3’ This was a clear cut case in point. Neither McLaren nor RB objected to Sainz getting a free swap since that was force majeure.

f1jcw wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 1:38 am
2. I can’t remember Ferrari helping them at anytime in AD21
Image
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#Aerogimli
#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

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Mr5in1
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Hoping Mercedes can close the RB gap with the W15 next year. I think the Monaco upgrades were hampered by fundamental rear grip / knife edge operational window.

If the W15 can address this I suspect a larger development jump into 2024 and through the season.

I think it will come down to how much more RBR can squeeze out of their development path, and what else Ferrari and McLaren will bring

Hammerfist
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Their only hope imo is if rbr somehow messes up the rb20. There are rumors rbr will go for a drastically new concept. So there’s a chance they miss out on that. So it could be 2015 again. But even if they do they’ll likely right the ship before year end. But it would be fun watching rbr chasing for once.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Hammerfist wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 3:49 pm
Their only hope imo is if rbr somehow messes up the rb20. There are rumors rbr will go for a drastically new concept. So there’s a chance they miss out on that. So it could be 2015 again.
Merc won 16 of 19 races in 2015. Are you thinking of a different year? RB will be hoping that winning 16/19 is their "fall" but...

r85
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Mr5in1 wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 1:31 pm
Hoping Mercedes can close the RB gap with the W15 next year. I think the Monaco upgrades were hampered by fundamental rear grip / knife edge operational window.

If the W15 can address this I suspect a larger development jump into 2024 and through the season.

I think it will come down to how much more RBR can squeeze out of their development path, and what else Ferrari and McLaren will bring
The promising thing is that 90% of the upgrades were not even made to bring raw performance to the car, rather to steer development in a different direction. I'm confident that Ferrari and Mercedes understand the physics and know exactly what to fix.

Luscion
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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i think Merc has a lot going for them to get better next season, all their upgrades working as expected this season, more importantly the test upgrades for the W15. finally upgrading their old pit equipment for next year, new concept with a new chassis & new suspension, their engine performance no longer having to be compromised for the zero pods and Russell saying they're no longer scratching their heads as to why they're so far behind Red Bull and that they see so many flaws with the W14. All that being said though, gonna be a lot of effort they'll have to put in to match RB for 2024

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Mattchu
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:48 am
f1jcw wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 1:38 am
Why do you continue to repeat this falsehood.

1. It’s not even true.
Repeating merc PR bs is not gonna make it true.
And you think if the tables were turned Ferrari wouldn`t have done the exact same thing! Sainz also said "teams" implying more than one, he also stated that F1 was a business. Max also said "every team thinks about themselves and they of course going to say no, he has to take the penalty.” It was plain bad luck, sometimes it happens, when it does, don`t expect favours from rival teams, they aren`t going to give an inch!

But whatever makes you feel better I suppose...