2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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F1NAC
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Andres125sx wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:27 am
Xyz22 wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:42 pm
trinidefender wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:00 pm


Sainz complain many times about the handling of the car. I think you’re quite mistaken if you believe that Ferrari built the car to favour Sainz. Also from your writing it seems that you heavily favour Leclerc. May I suggest you don’t underestimate Sainz so much. He might not have the complete raw speed as Leclerc in qualifying but on race pace he's there or thereabouts, he also definitely has a smarter racing brain.
Sorry but this narrative is false and i don't understand why it has become a reality in the first place.
Leclerc's advantage over Sainz, from 2021 to 2023, has been higher in race trim than quali trim on average.

Having said that Leclerc had way more issues than Sainz with the SF 23 for two main reasons:

- The car is very limited on the front end. Formu1a.uno reported recently that the SF 23 was one of the car which spend the least amount of time in a corner (it was the case even in Abu Dhabi)
- The car would become extremely unpredictable with an oversteery balance, which is usual what Leclerc goes for

Long story short the SF 23 was pretty much the "Anti Leclerc" definitive car :D Now i don't know if they did it on purpose (i doubt it), but yeah it's clearly the car Leclerc hates the most.
Maybe, but you´re assuming a car wich Leclerc don´t like will be good for Sainz, and that´s a wrong assumption.

The car can be "undriveable" for both drivers. This is Ferrari, keep that in mind, they can make a car wich do not suit any of their drivers :P :wink:



About Binotto-Vasseur... With Binotto Ferrari was 2nd (only comparing this ruleset), scoring 73% of RBR points. With Vasseur Ferrari was 3rd, scoring 47% of RBR points.

Obviously points and results are not everything, but they´re a very important factor to consider, and difference was huge, so someone should point this out

Anycase, I think TP is not the weak point at Ferrari, probably could be better, but apart from car perfomance itself, IMHO strategy department is by far the weakest link at Ferrari with several decisions wich were completely amateurish, for both drivers #-o
We should wait for next year to see what is Vasseur's Ferrari. This year there were still some deficits visible that appeared under Binotto as well (strategy, not prioritizing faster driver). Because if they build a rocket ship of the car they will tank it with bad decisions for sure. Also it would be nice to replace Xavi as a race engineer. The guy is basically Siri of race engineers.

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codetower
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Andres125sx wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:16 am
codetower wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 7:02 pm
I disagree with a couple of these statements. First, they don't need a "polite" engineer; They need an engineer who is leading his team or engineers and strategists...
But that is not the race engineer responsibility! There´s a strategy team for that
codetower wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 7:02 pm
...and giving the drivers the "right" information at the "right time".
Agree, that´s what I said. But the right info at the right time depends on the driver too, not all of them demand the same level of detailed info
codetower wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 7:02 pm
I don't care how smart a driver is, they only have access to a fraction of the data that the engineering team has; How big the gaps and deltas are, what the lap times of all other drivers are, how the different tire compounds are behaving on other cars, on your teammates car, when the best lap to pit is so you are out in the best window... All these things. The driver knows his car, and his race. His engineer should know everything else about the race better than the driver.

As fans we love it when a driver makes the decision to box on X lap for X tire compound, or to back up and give DRS to the guy behind you to keep the guys behind so you can keep your position, or to let a driver pass you to make up a 5 second penalty. But in reality, the pit wall and engineer SHOULD know this better than the driver. This is what concerns me not only about Charles' engineer, but Carlos' also.

And secondly, I don't care how much the driver likes the engineer, if the engineer is not bringing the best results, or holding a driver back... he's not doing a good job. That kind of thinking is exactly what failed Binotto.
Also agree with this, but you keep assuming that is the race engineer responsibility, when it is not. The strategy team manage that info, and make those decisions, not the race engineer, he only transmit the strategy team decisions to the driver

Or that´s my understanding of the role of race engineers, but maybe I´m wrong :roll:
I don't know what Xavi's exact role is at Ferrari, but the way I understand it, the role of the Race Engineer is basically the main link between the driver and the team. He's the gatekeeper of all the information happening on and off the track. His job is a lot more than just talking to the driver and telling them they are doing a "good job".

Here are two articles (Just did a quick search). One on Mazepins old engineer, and one on GP Lambiase. I figured I do both extremes. In Nikita's he basically says his main responsibility is to "lead the engineering team for his car". And on Race day (on Event) "I manage the car’s operation in the garage. This includes the run plan, the timings we leave the garage, the set-up on the car and I communicate with the driver when he’s on track." He also says "I control the engineering direction on the car taking information from everyone and deciding how to move forward."

And for Lambiase, "[he] is responsible for the operation of the car and interacts with the various specialists behind the scenes to ensure the team delivers "the most optimum package for that particular weekend” "

So I would assume (I may also be wrong) that Xavi should carry some of these responsibilities as well.

https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/how-b ... s/6634825/
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/202 ... gineer-gp/

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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I manage the car´s operation in teh garaje (FP), when the car leave the garaje (FP), the setup on the car (FP), and comunicate with the driver whenehe´s on track (any session). I can´t see how this contradict any of what I said, during the race, he´s just the team spokesman for the driver.

He also said this:
Dominic Haines wrote:There is a people side to the role as well, as you have to speak with the driver a lot – to make sure he’s happy, understanding his needs and limitations. We bring the engineering side together with the human side.
Wich is exactly what I said, almost look like a copy of my statement actually :D

Sevach
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Image

We caught you Charles :mrgreen:

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AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Sevach wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:57 am
https://i.redd.it/t07stovg4r3c1.png

Truer words have never been spoken :lol: :lol:

It was the same with Hamilton.

Xyz22
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Leclerc season recap thanks to The Race:

Image


Absolutely crazy to see such a difference in performance with just a more favourable balance.

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scuderiabrandon
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Xyz22 wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2023 4:53 pm
Leclerc season recap thanks to The Race:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GAWq54WW0AA ... name=large


Absolutely crazy to see such a difference in performance with just a more favourable balance.
It is crazy to believe a simple balance shift can make such a big difference. I was amongst the people who made these claims, which looking back seems absolutely crazy, and at a point I felt like a was just making excuses but were all proven right, which I can't be more happy about. It seems absolutely bonkers until it happens.

In a way I am very glad Ferrari had the sturggles they had. Finding consistent performane is the hardest thing to do it seems. Literally only Red Bull have achieved this across an entire season and now to the latter stages, Ferrari, which gives me unexplainable hope.

Xyz22
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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scuderiabrandon wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2023 5:34 pm
Xyz22 wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2023 4:53 pm
Leclerc season recap thanks to The Race:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GAWq54WW0AA ... name=large


Absolutely crazy to see such a difference in performance with just a more favourable balance.
It is crazy to believe a simple balance shift can make such a big difference. I was amongst the people who made these claims, which looking back seems absolutely crazy, and at a point I felt like a was just making excuses but were all proven right, which I can't be more happy about. It seems absolutely bonkers until it happens.

In a way I am very glad Ferrari had the sturggles they had. Finding consistent performane is the hardest thing to do it seems. Literally only Red Bull have achieved this across an entire season and now to the latter stages, Ferrari, which gives me unexplainable hope.
Personally, i didn't expect such an improvement because i thought well this is still the same car that he clearly doesn't like.
Moreover, Sainz is not a slow driver at all and especially in tracks like Mexico or Brazil.

So yeah, quite shocking.

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Xyz22 wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:56 pm
Moreover, Sainz is not a slow driver at all and especially in tracks like Mexico or Brazil.

So yeah, quite shocking.
Sainz gets slower when Leclerc is up to speed with the car. Same thing with Max in STR. Not sure if he starts questioning himself too much and so loses focus and 1-2 tenths a lap, but it affects him big time.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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It was a strange end to the season. RB and Ferrari did not touch their cars since the summer. Their 2nd driver performances still changed a lot during this time. Perez improved, Sainz got worse. It just shows that there are variables even when the car does not change.

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:51 pm
Xyz22 wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:56 pm
Moreover, Sainz is not a slow driver at all and especially in tracks like Mexico or Brazil.

So yeah, quite shocking.
Sainz gets slower when Leclerc is up to speed with the car. Same thing with Max in STR. Not sure if he starts questioning himself too much and so loses focus and 1-2 tenths a lap, but it affects him big time.
As usual, you can´t skip any opportunity to bash Sainz, with or without a reason :wtf: #-o

From Japan, there was 7 GPs remaining, Sainz scored 54 points, Leclerc 83
At first 7 GPs of the season, Sainz scored 58 points, Leclerc 42

58-54 is quite consistent from Sainz. 42-83 is not from Leclerc

And I didn´t even consider Qatar, next GP to Japan, when Sainz DNS because of a car problem (fuel leakage), so he could have scored even more points in that last third of the season, than he did at first


Leclerc perfomance was night and day during the season, quite poor at first, much better at the end. I understand this ups and downs from Leclerc might confuse you when comparing his perfomance with Sainz, but the inconsistent driver this season was Leclerc, not Sainz :wink:

I know, the car didn´t suit him at the start of the season. Poor boy. But that is Leclerc problem/limitation. Great drivers can adapt to any car, sorry if Leclerc can´t, but that is not Sainz problem. If you want to accuse any driver of inconsistency, this season that driver was Leclerc... again :wink:

Otherwise he should outscore Sainz by a factor of 1.5-2, but after 3 seasons that has never happened yet, he´s extremelly fast, but also very inconsistent.

Actually Leclerc is similar to the SF23, they both have a pretty small operating window, they´re fast when conditions are ok, but without those conditions perfomance drops way too much

Xyz22
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Not sure if i agree with the statement that Sainz got slower.

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codetower
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Andres125sx wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2023 1:17 pm
Vanja #66 wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:51 pm
Xyz22 wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:56 pm
Moreover, Sainz is not a slow driver at all and especially in tracks like Mexico or Brazil.

So yeah, quite shocking.
Sainz gets slower when Leclerc is up to speed with the car. Same thing with Max in STR. Not sure if he starts questioning himself too much and so loses focus and 1-2 tenths a lap, but it affects him big time.
As usual, you can´t skip any opportunity to bash Sainz, with or without a reason :wtf: #-o

From Japan, there was 7 GPs remaining, Sainz scored 54 points, Leclerc 83
At first 7 GPs of the season, Sainz scored 58 points, Leclerc 42

58-54 is quite consistent from Sainz. 42-83 is not from Leclerc

And I didn´t even consider Qatar, next GP to Japan, when Sainz DNS because of a car problem (fuel leakage), so he could have scored even more points in that last third of the season, than he did at first


Leclerc perfomance was night and day during the season, quite poor at first, much better at the end. I understand this ups and downs from Leclerc might confuse you when comparing his perfomance with Sainz, but the inconsistent driver this season was Leclerc, not Sainz :wink:

I know, the car didn´t suit him at the start of the season. Poor boy. But that is Leclerc problem/limitation. Great drivers can adapt to any car, sorry if Leclerc can´t, but that is not Sainz problem. If you want to accuse any driver of inconsistency, this season that driver was Leclerc... again :wink:

Otherwise he should outscore Sainz by a factor of 1.5-2, but after 3 seasons that has never happened yet, he´s extremelly fast, but also very inconsistent.

Actually Leclerc is similar to the SF23, they both have a pretty small operating window, they´re fast when conditions are ok, but without those conditions perfomance drops way too much
You didn't consider Sainz DNS? Did you also not consider Charles’ DNS? OR his DSQ? Or the engine issues from a podium spot at the first race, or the 10 place grid penalty at the race after?


Xyz22 wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2023 1:56 pm
Not sure if i agree with the statement that Sainz got slower.
I don’t think Sainz becomes slower. He’s a fast driver. But i think with a good car, Leclerc’s speed and talent come out more.

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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Sainz was very bad in the last 2 races despite no changes to the car. Either he got slower, or the late season car replacements were not up to scratch.

Xyz22
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:30 pm
Sainz was very bad in the last 2 races despite no changes to the car. Either he got slower, or the late season car replacements were not up to scratch.
In quali he was good in Vegas. The race didn't go according to plan.

He was slow in Abu Dhabi, especially in quali and in the first stint.