Sprint format (2023)

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JordanMugen
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Re: Sprint format (2023)

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The extra qualifying session version is even worse than the Sprint just being a 100km extension to the start of the race IMO. At the least the latter makes some sense.

I always prefer progressive grids where possible, as they seem more logical than having (in some cases up to four!) qualifying sessions for each (of four sprint) races in some categories.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: Sprint format (2023)

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This weekend has been perfect. The main event has not been spoiled.

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djos
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Re: Sprint format (2023)

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I've kept quiet on the Sprint Weekend concept as I wanted to give it a chance. At first, I really liked the extra F1 action, but now I wish they would drop the entire concept as it really does nothing for me. I prefer the proper Grand Prix weekend format.

The only concept i'd be happy to see more of is the 18 lap stint limitation - for me that got rid of the tire management and gave us back the "lights to flag" flat out racing we used to get in the refuelling days.
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FW17
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Re: Sprint format (2023)

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Sprint race as a short edition of the main race seems to have few fans. There is not much excitement about it for the TV viewers, but it should be great for people who are at the track.

Some drivers have also spoken about reverse grid, which is against the spirit of racing, but should have great entertainment value.

Either way short race in current format or a reverse gird is not going to be a memorable event (even when won by a rookie).

Well a reverse grid is going to be a hard sell, would a modified version of it have takers? This is way of going about it.....

> All cars start as per sprint qualifying results for a 20 lap race
> at the end of lap 3, the top 5 cars and the last 5 cars drive through the pit lane
> at the end of lap 8 the next top 5 cars drive through the pit lane (if they had not already done so)
> at the end of lap 13 the next top 5 cars drive through the pit lane
> if drivers wish to change their tyres, they do so with an additional pitstop to the drive through
> race finishes on lap 20 with no further drive throughs

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djos
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Re: Sprint format (2023)

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Personally, the only way i see sprint racing being viable in the long run, is if we have it replace qualifying to set the race grid.

Just let the teams have the normal 2 free practice sessions and set the sprint grid from the previous race’s qualifying session.

Although, I’d prefer they just drop it completely.

Btw, regarding the it’s good for those in attendance comment. Maybe FOM should make it a condition for promoters to actually put on a proper weekend event.

Here in Melbourne, we have 4 full days of racing, with everything from historic tin tops, current V8 Supercars, Porsche’s and many, many other support series.
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Big Tea
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Re: Sprint format (2023)

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I don't like it at all, it messes up the structure of the week end. If they must have something to draw people in on two days, why not just have 2 'normal' races?. Shorten them both a little, but run them as usual. One qualli on Friday, Race one Sat, race 2 Sun, possibly adjusted by finishing order, although I am not keen, and use the same allocation of tyres between both days and force a different choice on second day.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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mwillems
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Re: Sprint format (2023)

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Big Tea wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 8:07 pm
I don't like it at all, it messes up the structure of the week end. If they must have something to draw people in on two days, why not just have 2 'normal' races?. Shorten them both a little, but run them as usual. One qualli on Friday, Race one Sat, race 2 Sun, possibly adjusted by finishing order, although I am not keen, and use the same allocation of tyres between both days and force a different choice on second day.
I was thinking the same. It does mess up the weekend. In a way this can be good because it can make things a little less predictable due to the lower setup time. But at the same time it is frustrating for the same reason, and the downside irritates me more than the upside entertains me.

I enjoy the sprint races themselves, it's just that they need more time to set up the cars. But F1 is doing pretty good right now, the teams are doing very well, so why not add $1m (Or whatever it would cost) to the budget cap and give the sprint weekend two 45 minute FP sessions with some time to digest data instead of the one they have now.
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

Rodak
Rodak
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Re: Sprint format (2023)

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FW17 wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 7:34 am
Sprint race as a short edition of the main race seems to have few fans. There is not much excitement about it for the TV viewers, but it should be great for people who are at the track.

Some drivers have also spoken about reverse grid, which is against the spirit of racing, but should have great entertainment value.

Either way short race in current format or a reverse gird is not going to be a memorable event (even when won by a rookie).

Well a reverse grid is going to be a hard sell, would a modified version of it have takers? This is way of going about it.....

> All cars start as per sprint qualifying results for a 20 lap race
> at the end of lap 3, the top 5 cars and the last 5 cars drive through the pit lane
> at the end of lap 8 the next top 5 cars drive through the pit lane (if they had not already done so)
> at the end of lap 13 the next top 5 cars drive through the pit lane
> if drivers wish to change their tyres, they do so with an additional pitstop to the drive through
> race finishes on lap 20 with no further drive throughs
So the solution for gimmicky sprint races is to make them even more gimmicky? Just get rid of them.

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FW17
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Re: Sprint format (2023)

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Big Tea wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 8:07 pm
I don't like it at all, it messes up the structure of the week end. If they must have something to draw people in on two days, why not just have 2 'normal' races?. Shorten them both a little, but run them as usual. One qualli on Friday, Race one Sat, race 2 Sun, possibly adjusted by finishing order, although I am not keen, and use the same allocation of tyres between both days and force a different choice on second day.
2 normal races is no solution at all.

If they are going to have 2 races in the weekend, the Saturday race should not feature any of the Sunday/regular drivers. Teams will have to hire 4 drivers, mechanics and engineers will have to prep car for 4 drivers and all will winge about it endlessly. But in the end it will be good for the show so they will do it.

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FW17
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Re: Sprint format (2023)

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Rodak wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 8:32 pm
FW17 wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 7:34 am
Sprint race as a short edition of the main race seems to have few fans. There is not much excitement about it for the TV viewers, but it should be great for people who are at the track.

Some drivers have also spoken about reverse grid, which is against the spirit of racing, but should have great entertainment value.

Either way short race in current format or a reverse gird is not going to be a memorable event (even when won by a rookie).

Well a reverse grid is going to be a hard sell, would a modified version of it have takers? This is way of going about it.....

> All cars start as per sprint qualifying results for a 20 lap race
> at the end of lap 3, the top 5 cars and the last 5 cars drive through the pit lane
> at the end of lap 8 the next top 5 cars drive through the pit lane (if they had not already done so)
> at the end of lap 13 the next top 5 cars drive through the pit lane
> if drivers wish to change their tyres, they do so with an additional pitstop to the drive through
> race finishes on lap 20 with no further drive throughs
So the solution for gimmicky sprint races is to make them even more gimmicky? Just get rid of them.
Yes it is gimmicky. The problem with the current format is that it adds nothing to what we already have on a Sunday. Reverse grid is unfair, but the above solution is more palatable but fair as all are racing with the same restrictions (with the exception of last 5).

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Big Tea
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Re: Sprint format (2023)

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FW17 wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:13 am
Big Tea wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 8:07 pm
I don't like it at all, it messes up the structure of the week end. If they must have something to draw people in on two days, why not just have 2 'normal' races?. Shorten them both a little, but run them as usual. One qualli on Friday, Race one Sat, race 2 Sun, possibly adjusted by finishing order, although I am not keen, and use the same allocation of tyres between both days and force a different choice on second day.
2 normal races is no solution at all.

If they are going to have 2 races in the weekend, the Saturday race should not feature any of the Sunday/regular drivers. Teams will have to hire 4 drivers, mechanics and engineers will have to prep car for 4 drivers and all will winge about it endlessly. But in the end it will be good for the show so they will do it.
Why? its the same number of sessions in total, just one is a race instead of just passing time.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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FW17
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Re: Sprint format (2023)

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Big Tea wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:18 am
FW17 wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:13 am
Big Tea wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 8:07 pm
I don't like it at all, it messes up the structure of the week end. If they must have something to draw people in on two days, why not just have 2 'normal' races?. Shorten them both a little, but run them as usual. One qualli on Friday, Race one Sat, race 2 Sun, possibly adjusted by finishing order, although I am not keen, and use the same allocation of tyres between both days and force a different choice on second day.
2 normal races is no solution at all.

If they are going to have 2 races in the weekend, the Saturday race should not feature any of the Sunday/regular drivers. Teams will have to hire 4 drivers, mechanics and engineers will have to prep car for 4 drivers and all will winge about it endlessly. But in the end it will be good for the show so they will do it.
Why? its the same number of sessions in total, just one is a race instead of just passing time.
Coz every year is not 2021, 2012, 2010, 2005, 2003

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djos
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Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 5:09 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Sprint format (2023)

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FW17 wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:16 am
Rodak wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 8:32 pm
FW17 wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 7:34 am
Sprint race as a short edition of the main race seems to have few fans. There is not much excitement about it for the TV viewers, but it should be great for people who are at the track.

Some drivers have also spoken about reverse grid, which is against the spirit of racing, but should have great entertainment value.

Either way short race in current format or a reverse gird is not going to be a memorable event (even when won by a rookie).

Well a reverse grid is going to be a hard sell, would a modified version of it have takers? This is way of going about it.....

> All cars start as per sprint qualifying results for a 20 lap race
> at the end of lap 3, the top 5 cars and the last 5 cars drive through the pit lane
> at the end of lap 8 the next top 5 cars drive through the pit lane (if they had not already done so)
> at the end of lap 13 the next top 5 cars drive through the pit lane
> if drivers wish to change their tyres, they do so with an additional pitstop to the drive through
> race finishes on lap 20 with no further drive throughs
So the solution for gimmicky sprint races is to make them even more gimmicky? Just get rid of them.
Yes it is gimmicky. The problem with the current format is that it adds nothing to what we already have on a Sunday. Reverse grid is unfair, but the above solution is more palatable but fair as all are racing with the same restrictions (with the exception of last 5).
F1 is supposed to be a meritocracy - reverse grids would be IMO the worst possible outcome (ps, I'm not suggesting you are advocating for them, I'm just adding my 2.5c (adjusted for inflation)).

Many top level racing series have tried reverse grids and found that they just turned into crash fests, and were deeply unpopular with their core fan bases.
"In downforce we trust"

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FW17
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Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:56 am

Re: Sprint format (2023)

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I would prefer Saturday race with different drivers. I wouldn't mind even 12 sprints then

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djos
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Sprint format (2023)

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FW17 wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:40 am
I would prefer Saturday race with different drivers. I wouldn't mind even 12 sprints then
The costs would increase quite a lot!

Realistically you'd need an extra car for each non-WCC driver, complete with a set of PU's. Otherwise, you would ruin normal championship contenders weekends when accidents or PU failures occur.
"In downforce we trust"