2022 budget cap violations

[LM10]

Nothing confirmed, but this article claims that 3 of 10 teams may have violated the budget cap in 2022. No mention of team names yet.

Whether this article turns out to be true or not, I’ve started this thread because at some point later in the season we will have the official version and likely things to talk about.


https://scuderiafans.com/f1-three-out-o ... n-the-way/

[ValeVida46]

Well Horner suggested last year he isn't 100% confident Red Bull will be under the 2022 budget cap.
But is confident they will be under it
Sandwiches last time, energy this.
As many as 6 teams Horner is quoted as saying in this story from October last year may have broken the budget cap.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/horn ... /10392047/

Was it just deflection from the high price of sandwiches?


I wonder who might be in the crosshairs, equally I wonder if there is any validity to the story or it's the usual clickbait.

[Willy]

I hope FIA has learnt lessons from 2021 cost cap saga and can enforce stringent penalty for anyone breaking cost cap regardless of minor or major breach. Dismiss from WDC and WCC standings with heavy penalties on wind tunnel time (50% reduction at a minimum) and huge fines (in excess of 50 million) and a reduction in cost cap for next year. I hope we don't hear the BS of first time offenders and hence there should be leniency.

I also hope our members are mature enough to not argue such a huge penalty if enforced on their favorite team if that is at the crosshairs, by comparing to how lenient the penalty was on Red Bull. If it is Red Bull again, I think they should be disqualified for 2 seasons.

[scuderiabrandon]

Although this is all just speculation I have my doubts about it being Red Bull again. Since we have nothing other than in-season developments to go off of, I would say something along the line of McLaren-Aston Martin-Mercedes. I'm going solely off the sheer number of upgrades we saw from these teams so don't take this to heart. Then again this season were seeing more teams bring bigger developments more often.

[ValeVida46]

Although this is all just speculation I have my doubts about it being Red Bull again. Since we have nothing other than in-season developments to go off of, I would say something along the line of McLaren-Aston Martin-Mercedes. I'm going solely off the sheer number of upgrades we saw from these teams so don't take this to heart. Then again this season were seeing more teams bring bigger developments more often.

Mercedes have 2 upgrades of note in 2023, their sidepod and the front suspension. They're on the lower end of the spectrum for the 2023 season.
However the point of the rumours are this isn't about 2023. It's about 2022 fiscal data. AMuS suggest the rumour is "at least " 2 teams...

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... -valkyrie/

RB17 hypercar and Valkyrie racing variant cited as loophole potentials.

[chrisc90]

I’d be shocked if it was red bull.

To be fair though, everyone has been through the process once now so they know how it works and what to expect. So a varying penalty for the teams that breached last year, financial and procedural, shouldn’t be worse than the first time a team is found to be over. Why should there be a 1 season exemption from the cap with a lesser penalty? Doesn’t make sense in a fair application of the rules.

What I think will be is there will be lesser penalties than what the rules actually say. So your much more likely to get the lesser end of the scale rather than dropping a WDC/WCC disqualification on a team. Or banned from a seasons racing. FOM/Liberty would lose too much money, fan base etc if they decided that a team couldn’t compete next year. The application of that rule is simply unviable really.


What I don’t think we will see is team principles coming out with the news before the FIA. A bit like Toto was coming out with most of the right things before the FIA released the findings. I think the FIA will have learnt from that about any whistleblowers and people have been told not to share confidential information. It certainly wasn’t a good look really during the initial run up saga last year

[ValeVida46]

I’d be shocked if it was red bull.

They do have form though.

To be fair though, everyone has been through the process once now so they know how it works and what to expect. So a varying penalty for the teams that breached last year, financial and procedural, shouldn’t be worse than the first time a team is found to be over. Why should there be a 1 season exemption from the cap with a lesser penalty? Doesn’t make sense in a fair application of the rules

We've seen the result of the "penalty", and it's not lost on anyone viewing this season. So as Vasseur and Brown have called for, stiffer penalties need to be introduced or the rule no longer becomes worth observing.

[chrisc90]

You haven’t seen the true effect of the penalty though as even the 2021 Red bull was a notch above the rest. The penalty began in late October. So it’s really this 2023 season RB will have the disadvantage. Of course how that translates over to 2024 when others have more development windtunnel/CFD time - only time will tell.

As I said in the other cost cap thread- it’s a balance to spending a little more and getting some more development that’s beneficial or not. A bit like track limits, do it 2-3 times and you don’t get penalised, but is the risk of going wide worth it? Balancing act. No promoting cheating there mind before the vultures descend

[TimW]

Although this is all just speculation I have my doubts about it being Red Bull again. Since we have nothing other than in-season developments to go off of, I would say something along the line of McLaren-Aston Martin-Mercedes. I'm going solely off the sheer number of upgrades we saw from these teams so don't take this to heart. Then again this season were seeing more teams bring bigger developments more often.

Mercedes have 2 upgrades of note in 2023, their sidepod and the front suspension. They're on the lower end of the spectrum for the 2023 season.
However the point of the rumours are this isn't about 2023. It's about 2022 fiscal data. AMuS suggest the rumour is "at least " 2 teams...

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... -valkyrie/

RB17 hypercar and Valkyrie racing variant cited as loophole potentials.

These loopholes were not closed yet in 2022, so under this review they are allowed to be used.

[Willy]

Although this is all just speculation I have my doubts about it being Red Bull again. Since we have nothing other than in-season developments to go off of, I would say something along the line of McLaren-Aston Martin-Mercedes. I'm going solely off the sheer number of upgrades we saw from these teams so don't take this to heart. Then again this season were seeing more teams bring bigger developments more often.

Mercedes have 2 upgrades of note in 2023, their sidepod and the front suspension. They're on the lower end of the spectrum for the 2023 season.
However the point of the rumours are this isn't about 2023. It's about 2022 fiscal data. AMuS suggest the rumour is "at least " 2 teams...

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... -valkyrie/

RB17 hypercar and Valkyrie racing variant cited as loophole potentials.

Mercedes lost a lot of money in car damages last year and lots of experimental parts to cure a diseased car. Ferrari also had a lot of damages with their cars crashing. Red Bull with least damages and with no upgrades after summer break.

[Wouter]

Nothing confirmed, but this article claims that 3 of 10 teams may have violated the budget cap in 2022. No mention of team names yet.

Whether this article turns out to be true or not, I’ve started this thread because at some point later in the season we will have the official version and likely things to talk about.


https://scuderiafans.com/f1-three-out-o ... n-the-way/

.
The article mentions "Motorsport.it reports this rumor."
And again it is from Franco Nugnes who always tries to have a scoop. Mostly he is not reliable.
The result is that everyone is already speculating wich teams those three are and speaking bad about them.
And before the FIA makes a statement the damage is already done to one or two teams.

[SiLo]

Wouldnt surprise me if it was mostly UK based teams because of inflation, energy and shipping costs etc.

[chrisc90]

Wouldnt surprise me if it was mostly UK based teams because of inflation, energy and shipping costs etc.

Everyone except Ferrari then?

[ValeVida46]

These loopholes were not closed yet in 2022, so under this review they are allowed to be used.

Great point.

I do wonder though what happens in the hypothetical that the FIA have evidence of direct transfer?
As "free IP" was a consideration under the 2022 budget cap ruling.

[chrisc90]

Did we get to know the dates of the loopholes they closed up? Sure I remember them backdating it? Was that just to the 2023 start of year?