RB20 speculation

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GhostF1
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Re: RB20 speculation

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Honda are bringing a substantial update to its engine which apparently will allow them to run it harder under more extreme circumstances at no detriment to reliability/longevity.

With that, maybe there is a bit of scope to the rumours of reduced centreline cooling or just overall. It was already impressive how little cooling openings the RB19 had after the final sidepod update. So with the updated engine, potentially slightly more radical reductions could be on the way?

Bumper cars
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Re: RB20 speculation

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I think the speculation can already stop... ;-)

https://au.motorsport.com/autosport-awa ... 23/644266/

(Fast forward to 3:48 for the RB20 vibes and also pay attention to the expression of the engineers. Annihilation incoming...)

OnEcRiTiCaL
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Re: RB20 speculation

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Bumper cars wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:08 pm
I think the speculation can already stop... ;-)

https://au.motorsport.com/autosport-awa ... 23/644266/

(Fast forward to 3:48 for the RB20 vibes and also pay attention to the expression of the engineers. Annihilation incoming...)
I'm pretty sure other teams will improve more than Redbull. I don't worry about the same dominance as this year. I worry more about 2025 when finally other teams will catch up at Redbull, then bummmm at 2026 all can go in trash. I really hate it.

Emag
Emag
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Re: RB20 speculation

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Bumper cars wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:08 pm
I think the speculation can already stop... ;-)

https://au.motorsport.com/autosport-awa ... 23/644266/

(Fast forward to 3:48 for the RB20 vibes and also pay attention to the expression of the engineers. Annihilation incoming...)
It's easy to get carried away when you've had such a dominant season. I have no doubt RedBull has a huge step coming next year because every hint a technical person drops about RB20 in that team has been nothing but "barely" contained excitement.

I believe it was Newey who started this all earlier in the season when on a track-side interview, he was asked about diminishing returns in these regulations, and he just smirked the question away.

Nevertheless, overconfidence is not a good thing to have. Mercedes did not win 8 back to back constructors titles by undermining the competition. Very rarely did they make comments about how much better than the competition they were going to be with their next year's car.

Nobody is standing still in this sport. By the end of 2023, even if RedBull was still the fastest, margins were small. I don't think you can just count Ferrari and Mercedes out. They both made mistakes in 2023 and are confident about next season too. And McLaren has made decent strides with more reinforcements joining the technical team for 2024 too.

RB20 will very likely be a very competitive machine, but I would be surprised if they continue on with the sort of dominance they displayed this season.

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organic
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Re: RB20 speculation

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Emag wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2023 8:48 pm
Bumper cars wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:08 pm
I think the speculation can already stop... ;-)

https://au.motorsport.com/autosport-awa ... 23/644266/

(Fast forward to 3:48 for the RB20 vibes and also pay attention to the expression of the engineers. Annihilation incoming...)
It's easy to get carried away when you've had such a dominant season. I have no doubt RedBull has a huge step coming next year because every hint a technical person drops about RB20 in that team has been nothing but "barely" contained excitement.

I believe it was Newey who started this all earlier in the season when on a track-side interview, he was asked about diminishing returns in these regulations, and he just smirked the question away.

Nevertheless, overconfidence is not a good thing to have. Mercedes did not win 8 back to back constructors titles by undermining the competition. Very rarely did they make comments about how much better than the competition they were going to be with their next year's car.

Nobody is standing still in this sport. By the end of 2023, even if RedBull was still the fastest, margins were small. I don't think you can just count Ferrari and Mercedes out. They both made mistakes in 2023 and are confident about next season too. And McLaren has made decent strides with more reinforcements joining the technical team for 2024 too.

RB20 will very likely be a very competitive machine, but I would be surprised if they continue on with the sort of dominance they displayed this season.
Race to race Mercedes always acted like it was a massive accomplishment that they overcame the opposition and that it was really difficult every single time. Even when it was a walk in the park and they had their engines turned down a ton.

That's entirely their playbook and just because their behaviour was the status quo for nigh on a decade does not mean that's the only way a dominant team can act nor that it's therefore the best way for a team to feel.

Of course you want to keep everyone hungry and wanting more, and becoming overconfident and laid-back would in theory not good. But at the same time, requiring all employees to always trot out the PR lines is something RB doesn't do and maybe there are other benefits to that.

Really, in my opinion, the key to F1 is about keeping a stable leadership and keeping team members happy and motivated. How you go about the latter can be done in a number of ways: there's no 'best' formula.

I'd also say that false humility can come off worse than overt confidence. If they talked down their chances and came out of the gates with 5 tenths per lap advantage, as a rival fan I'd be annoyed

AR3-GP
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Re: RB20 speculation

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Reading the smiles of team members? What's next, reading Adrian Newey's palm? :lol:

I think it's logical to think RB know what they are doing, but not because of smiles at an award show. One could simply review their track record in 2022 and 2023. It's rare for a leading team to botch their car under stable regulations.

michl420
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Re: RB20 speculation

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In 2015-2021 and from 2010-2013 the dominant car was always a evolution of the car before. And a early start in the year for a new car is relativ. The design for the 24 car started practical summer 2021.

AR3-GP
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Re: RB20 speculation

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A bit of non-descript nothingness from Horner, but it's something nonetheless :wink:


Worryingly for such teams, while the RB19 “ticked a lot of boxes”, Horner sees room for further improvement looking ahead to the RB20.

“You can always improve and that’s what Formula 1 is all about,” said Horner.

“It’s always looking at where can you be better and RB19, whilst it ticked a lot of boxes, there are still areas that we can improve that we’ll be looking to carry into RB20.

“But that’s Formula 1, that’s competition, it’s all those marginal gains that you’re pursuing.”

Should Verstappen win his fourth World title in F1 2024, it would see him match Sebastian Vettel’s streak of four successive titles with Red Bull between 2010-13.

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organic
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Re: RB20 speculation

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Max has been talking about low speed and bumps since early in the season as the main area to improve so my guess is the rb20 will be good in those areas and that'll be the main step from the rb19

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carisi2k
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Re: RB20 speculation

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OnEcRiTiCaL wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2023 3:21 pm

I'm pretty sure other teams will improve more than Redbull. I don't worry about the same dominance as this year. I worry more about 2025 when finally other teams will catch up at Redbull, then bummmm at 2026 all can go in trash. I really hate it.
I wouldn't be so sure. 2026 isn't a major re design. Mainly the change is the front wing from what I can see and maybe getting rid of the floor edge wing.

Tzk
Tzk
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Re: RB20 speculation

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I'd expect that RB will try to avoid another Singapore '23... So yes i expect improvements in the low speed and 90° street circuits. We'll see how that works out for them.

PhF1x
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Re: RB20 speculation

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Tzk wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:31 am
I'd expect that RB will try to avoid another Singapore '23... So yes i expect improvements in the low speed and 90° street circuits. We'll see how that works out for them.
I think their main area of focus would be the front wing and suspension.

Overall, I cant help but get the feeling that the RB19 is the conservative approach plus 1000 iterations and I find it hard to imagine them coming with anything that looks radical. Considering that Redbull is the team that conventionally always went for a wider operating window while teams like Mercedes went for a narrow window and used advanced gimmicks to keep the car in its window, I'm not surprised.

One question I would ask, does the water slides increases drag or reduces the effectiveness of the rear wing?

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Wouter
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Re: RB20 speculation

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organic wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2023 12:33 am
Max has been talking about low speed and bumps since early in the season as the main area to improve
so my guess is the rb20 will be good in those areas and that'll be the main step from the rb19
.
Translated bij DeepL.

Former Red Bull engineer warns for 2024: 'If they solve that, it will be terrifying'
by Mark Hanselman 09/12/2023

Blake Hinsey, former performance engineer of Max Verstappen, has looked back on a dominant season for Red Bull Racing and Verstappen. The Briton, who was a guest on an Autosport podcast, also sees few reasons to assume that Red Bull will be more vulnerable in 2024, partly because the RB19 still had some weaknesses that can now be eliminated.

Hinsey points out a number of factors that play against Red Bull. 'You have to deal with that scale of wind tunnel time: the higher you end up, the less wind tunnel time you get. In addition, you already have a level playing field because of the budget limit. The five top teams will at least reach that limit in terms of budget.'

Yet Hinsey thinks that a lot of improvement is still needed at Red Bull. "However, at Red Bull you have a team that has a big advantage and has been able to manage this since the start of the season." For example, Red Bull has been focusing entirely on the RB20 for months. 'If you make the right choices philosophically and have found development paths that allow you to achieve additional achievements, it is usually easier to improve further.'

Red Bull now needs to look at where they can improve, and one of those areas is at low speeds.
Max himself recently talked about this, and the data also makes it clear that Ferrari is better in slow corners.
If they solve that, it will be terrifying," Verstappen's former engineer concludes.



This is his YT channel. His analysis are always very good. https://www.youtube.com/@brrrake/videos
The Power of Dreams!

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organic
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Re: RB20 speculation

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Horner confirming much of what I suspected for a long time already. Also would be in line with what James Allison said recently. With a 4-year cycle and a budget cap, producing a clean slate new car each year makes less sense..
Christian Horner: The RB19 is already a piece of history, what we have achieved with this car is simply incredible. There are many things that were carried over from the RB18, part of the chassis, the suspension is the same, the gearbox is also exactly the same. Probably, 60% of the car ran last year as well.
So my expectation is that the RB20 will be a clean slate design that'll carry over few components from the RB19 and it'll be developed into the 2025 car

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Chuckjr
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Re: RB20 speculation

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Emag wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2023 8:48 pm

RB20 will very likely be a very competitive machine, but I would be surprised if they continue on with the sort of dominance they displayed this season.
Lol. You remind me of what Ferrari fans were saying after the Mercedes annihilation of everyone in 2014. Their dominance lasted 7 long years thereafter. Just keep telling yourself it won’t happen with RB. 🤦‍♂️ Their retaining Checo’s sub-standard services should be all the evidence needed to render their confidence walking into 2024.

Get ready for an even higher level of dominance.
Watching F1 since 1986.