2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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chrisc90
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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He was definitely overtaken. He did not concede any position at all to Perez.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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Tiny73 wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 8:02 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 7:58 pm
Tiny73 wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 7:51 pm


He gave the position back within 3 laps so moot point, but you knew that.
He didn't "give the position back". He was overtaken. I'm just surprised that's all. Had it been a different driver we wouldn't hear the end of it.
Rubbish, he clearly ceded the position but your bias won’t let you see that.
He ceded position with his DRS open. Right. lol.

Tiny73
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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AR3-GP wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 8:05 pm
Tiny73 wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 8:02 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 7:58 pm


He didn't "give the position back". He was overtaken. I'm just surprised that's all. Had it been a different driver we wouldn't hear the end of it.
Rubbish, he clearly ceded the position but your bias won’t let you see that.
He ceded position with his DRS open. Right. lol.
Sigh :?

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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Hamilton also hit an Alpine twice (Ocon first, Gasly later). Once into T6 on the first lap, and again eventually running into the back of him later in the race also in T6. No penalties.

Perez wasn't very clever with his move on Norris, but I'm surprised he got a penalty and Hamilton didn't. Hamilton wasn't ahead of Gasly in any of the collisions and Gasly lost a lot of pace after what looked like a bit of his diffuser got sent packing.
Last edited by AR3-GP on Sun Nov 26, 2023 8:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.

mendis
mendis
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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Tiny73 wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 8:02 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 7:58 pm
Tiny73 wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 7:51 pm


He gave the position back within 3 laps so moot point, but you knew that.
He didn't "give the position back". He was overtaken. I'm just surprised that's all. Had it been a different driver we wouldn't hear the end of it.
Rubbish, he clearly ceded the position but your bias won’t let you see that.
No he did not. Perez made a DRS move to get the position.

Tiny73
Tiny73
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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mendis wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 8:11 pm
Tiny73 wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 8:02 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 7:58 pm


He didn't "give the position back". He was overtaken. I'm just surprised that's all. Had it been a different driver we wouldn't hear the end of it.
Rubbish, he clearly ceded the position but your bias won’t let you see that.
No he did not. Perez made a DRS move to get the position.
And how much did Hamilton fight? He didn’t,even Brundle noted that he ceded that position but don’t let the facts spoil your narrative, eh?

mendis
mendis
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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Tiny73 wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 8:13 pm
mendis wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 8:11 pm
Tiny73 wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 8:02 pm


Rubbish, he clearly ceded the position but your bias won’t let you see that.
No he did not. Perez made a DRS move to get the position.
And how much did Hamilton fight? He didn’t,even Brundle noted that he ceded that position but don’t let the facts spoil your narrative, eh?
He had nothing to defend against that RB19. Fact is, he didn't concede, he was overtaken. Lewis with DRS 323kph. Perez with DRS 342kph.

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Juzh
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:45 am

Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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AR3-GP wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 7:48 pm
Hamilton overtook Perez off the circuit on lap 1 T1 with no conceivable reason to leave the circuit. No investigation. Interesting.

I would upload a video by the FOM have destroyed any ability to screen cap F1TV.
Disable hardware acceleration in chrome and restart browser, then you can cap.
https://pureinfotech.com/disable-hardwa ... on-chrome/

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Juzh
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:45 am

Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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Tiny73 wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 8:13 pm
mendis wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 8:11 pm
Tiny73 wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 8:02 pm


Rubbish, he clearly ceded the position but your bias won’t let you see that.
No he did not. Perez made a DRS move to get the position.
And how much did Hamilton fight? He didn’t,even Brundle noted that he ceded that position but don’t let the facts spoil your narrative, eh?
And how exactly would brundle know this? No onboard was shown and he just threw something in to excuse hamilton's illegal overtake a few laps prior. I checked hamilton's footage and nothing was said to him on the radio and he was going flat out with zero intention of "ceding" the position to perez.

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organic
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Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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Tiny73 wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 8:02 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 7:58 pm
Tiny73 wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 7:51 pm


He gave the position back within 3 laps so moot point, but you knew that.
He didn't "give the position back". He was overtaken. I'm just surprised that's all. Had it been a different driver we wouldn't hear the end of it.
Rubbish, he clearly ceded the position but your bias won’t let you see that.
Does the telemetry show Hamilton giving the position back? Overlain telemetry would certainly give indication

From a brief look on f1-tempo, I can't see a lift or anything that would indicate giving the position back. I don't understand why you're calling others out for bias here when you can easily show ham giving position back with throttle trace or footage etc but no.. 2nd hand live commentary from Brundle who is just talking over sky's feed should be enough for a technical forum ? :lol:

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Juzh
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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Looking at perez norris stuff once again, it's norris who should get two penalties. One for intentionally turning into an opponent, second one for cutting the track and gaining an advantage. Perez is fully in control of his car, it wasn't any sort of divebomb, and norris let the door open completely. There's also still space on the outside of that corner for norris to occupy. Worst stewarding I've seen since a long time, and then modern FIA seemingly has authority over drivers as if they're little babies, calling perez in to defend himself. He should tell em to go places where sun doesnt shine tbh. Gunther is absolutely right, entire stewards bunch is a whole load of amateur hour week in week out.

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TFSA
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Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2023 5:06 am

Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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Regarding Hamilton/Perez.

First of all: i just went back and watched the race start, and Hamilton was ahead of Perez before he went off track. Perez didn't leave any space (not that he was required to), but if Hamilton hadn't gone off track, they would have collided. But that was very unlikely to be a penalty in the first place. Neither driver was at fault. Perez didn't expect to be overtaken on the outside, and Hamilton was carrying good speed for an overtake, but not so much that he couldn't have stayed on track had Perez not been there. Classic Lap 1 Turn 1.

But second of all: Whether Hamilton gave the position back willingly or was overtaken is inconsequential, because any penalty he would have gotten would be for "Leaving the track and gaining a lasting advantage."

If you get overtaken back, the advantage isn't lasting 🙂 Edit: Although, i will concede that the time it took for Perez to retake over Hamilton would have played a factor. But then i refer to my first point.

So can we put this discussion to rest?
Last edited by TFSA on Sun Nov 26, 2023 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mkay
mkay
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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AR3-GP wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 8:10 pm
Hamilton also hit an Alpine twice (Ocon first, Gasly later). Once into T6 on the first lap, and again eventually running into the back of him later in the race also in T6. No penalties.

Perez wasn't very clever with his move on Norris, but I'm surprised he got a penalty and Hamilton didn't. Hamilton wasn't ahead of Gasly in any of the collisions and Gasly lost a lot of pace after what looked like a bit of his diffuser got sent packing.
Hamilton plowing into Gasly should have resulted in a 5-second penalty at least. Hamilton got away with it just like in Vegas IMO.

Rikhart
Rikhart
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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AR3-GP wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 8:10 pm
Hamilton also hit an Alpine twice (Ocon first, Gasly later). Once into T6 on the first lap, and again eventually running into the back of him later in the race also in T6. No penalties.

Perez wasn't very clever with his move on Norris, but I'm surprised he got a penalty and Hamilton didn't. Hamilton wasn't ahead of Gasly in any of the collisions and Gasly lost a lot of pace after what looked like a bit of his diffuser got sent packing.
You mean you haven't noticed hamilton is completely immune to penalties? How many collisions has he had this season, and zero penalties? Just in the last few races I remember more than 5 occasions he ran into other people, caused them damage, but hey it's fine people, "racing incident", it's amazing.

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TFSA
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Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2023 5:06 am

Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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Juzh wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 10:23 pm
Looking at perez norris stuff once again, it's norris who should get two penalties. One for intentionally turning into an opponent, second one for cutting the track and gaining an advantage. Perez is fully in control of his car, it wasn't any sort of divebomb, and norris let the door open completely.
When I first saw the contact, i did initially think it looked a little clumsy from Norris. But when it happened, I was in an airport walking with my tablet and a suitcase in tow while watching the race, and as such didn't have the opportunity to look further into it at the time. I thought it was 50/50 between racing incident and Perez penalty.

But now I've just rewatched it, including their onboards, and it definitely was a divebomb.

First: Perez missed the apex. That's not being in control of your car. You want to go for an inside overtake, you have to make the apex. That's the lesson from Silverstone 21. Lando knew he was coming, gave him plenty of space - so much that he basically was conceding the position - and then Perez doesn't use the space fully, and would have gone wide enough on the exit that he would, in all likelihood, have ran Norris off the track if they haven't collided.

In addition, looking at the onboard, Perez isn't alongside Norris until at the very end of the strait before the apex. He's coming with increased speed from behind, brakes late, doesn't make the apex. That's textbook definition of a divebomb unless it's executed flawlessly.

It wasn't as clumsy as his move on Albon in Singapore, but it still just about qualifies as a divebomb. Perez isn't fully to blame, but he was predominantly to blame, which is the requirement for getting a penalty.

And as such, Lando getting rammed off the track is the fault of Perez, and no penalty applies to the second part of your post either regarding going off track. Perez isn't entitled to be given the position back when he caused a collision and rammed another driver off the track.