2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ME4ME
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Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:37 pm

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri May 24, 2024 10:51 pm
That's what comes from having a dominant car and a weak team mate. Except for Senna who had a dominant car and a world champion team mate. Senna's performance is one of the reasons he's still held in such high regard.
Tiresome to read these kind of comments. Best car doesn't automatically translate to the record breaking and matching results that Verstappen has achieved. He is probably the single most consistent driver ever. Certainly among the absolute top 3. And Senna might've had a world champion team mate, but so what? Leclerc wiped the floor with Vettel 4xWC in the end. Verstappen would've crushed several world champion drivers if they had been in Perez's seat.

Fair enough to still rate Senna or Schumacher or Hamilton etc as the best. Thats up to each and every person to judge.
But its cheap to imply that these records are to be expected just from having a good car alone. Hamilton had a good car. He broke other records, but not these. He is recognizing Verstappens achievements. Bitter rivals yet he's expressed respect for the achievements, as has Verstappen.

Dunlay
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Wouter wrote:
Sat May 25, 2024 9:09 am
Verstappen clarifies: 'Jos and Horner have no conflict'

"The more I talk about it, the more people have to write," Verstappen interjects in the interview. "You write it down, you make a story out of it and people will pick up little things and it becomes a massive --- storm. You know what I mean? I tell you a story that might get translated to Spanish, Dutch, whatever. The more I say about it is not going to help the situation."
"They are not in conflict," Max clarified. "People can have different opinions, but that's a different story."

"I am quite a loyal person and it is something that means a lot to me. That is what I request from the team and so far that has always been great and that is what I want to keep for a long time. It would be amazing to finish my career here at Red Bull. All the years staying basically at one team would be incredible," he concluded his story.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/278428/v ... flict.html
Jos went around making statements about how Horner continuing in Red Bull was creating friction inside the team and that the team was falling apart, so Horner should leave the team. Now Max is saying, there is no conflict? Either Max is naive or just trying to bury the situation his father's jarring stupidity has created. A complete stupid like Jos having been blessed with a child like Max should be the biggest miralce on earth. Otherwise, he would still be going around drunk and beating people.

101FlyingDutchman
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Dunlay wrote:
Sat May 25, 2024 10:59 am
Wouter wrote:
Sat May 25, 2024 9:09 am
Verstappen clarifies: 'Jos and Horner have no conflict'

"The more I talk about it, the more people have to write," Verstappen interjects in the interview. "You write it down, you make a story out of it and people will pick up little things and it becomes a massive --- storm. You know what I mean? I tell you a story that might get translated to Spanish, Dutch, whatever. The more I say about it is not going to help the situation."
"They are not in conflict," Max clarified. "People can have different opinions, but that's a different story."

"I am quite a loyal person and it is something that means a lot to me. That is what I request from the team and so far that has always been great and that is what I want to keep for a long time. It would be amazing to finish my career here at Red Bull. All the years staying basically at one team would be incredible," he concluded his story.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/278428/v ... flict.html
Jos went around making statements about how Horner continuing in Red Bull was creating friction inside the team and that the team was falling apart, so Horner should leave the team. Now Max is saying, there is no conflict? Either Max is naive or just trying to bury the situation his father's jarring stupidity has created. A complete stupid like Jos having been blessed with a child like Max should be the biggest miralce on earth. Otherwise, he would still be going around drunk and beating people.
Remember, there are two component parts in making a child 😜

I don’t see any mis-alignment in what Max is saying and what “may or may not have been said by his dad”. A lot of media reports and sensationalist headlines.
Saying that, I’m glad Max is his own man and able to make his own mind up. He’s grown on me since his early hothead years. With age comes maturity and I hope that trend continues.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ME4ME wrote:
Sat May 25, 2024 10:33 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri May 24, 2024 10:51 pm
That's what comes from having a dominant car and a weak team mate. Except for Senna who had a dominant car and a world champion team mate. Senna's performance is one of the reasons he's still held in such high regard.
Tiresome to read these kind of comments. Best car doesn't automatically translate to the record breaking and matching results that Verstappen has achieved. He is probably the single most consistent driver ever. Certainly among the absolute top 3. And Senna might've had a world champion team mate, but so what? Leclerc wiped the floor with Vettel 4xWC in the end. Verstappen would've crushed several world champion drivers if they had been in Perez's seat.

Fair enough to still rate Senna or Schumacher or Hamilton etc as the best. Thats up to each and every person to judge.
But its cheap to imply that these records are to be expected just from having a good car alone. Hamilton had a good car. He broke other records, but not these. He is recognizing Verstappens achievements. Bitter rivals yet he's expressed respect for the achievements, as has Verstappen.
So far, Max's career has mirrored Seb's. Bright early start then crushing performances in a car that suits him to a tee. What happens next? He might end up in the equivalent of the W13 and then look average.

Max is a great driver - one of the greats in the sport. But no one should view any driver through rose-tinted glasses with blinkers fitted too.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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Wouter
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Dunlay wrote:
Sat May 25, 2024 10:59 am
Wouter wrote:
Sat May 25, 2024 9:09 am
Verstappen clarifies: 'Jos and Horner have no conflict'

"The more I talk about it, the more people have to write," Verstappen interjects in the interview. "You write it down, you make a story out of it and people will pick up little things and it becomes a massive --- storm. You know what I mean? I tell you a story that might get translated to Spanish, Dutch, whatever. The more I say about it is not going to help the situation."
"They are not in conflict," Max clarified. "People can have different opinions, but that's a different story."

"I am quite a loyal person and it is something that means a lot to me. That is what I request from the team and so far that has always been great and that is what I want to keep for a long time. It would be amazing to finish my career here at Red Bull. All the years staying basically at one team would be incredible," he concluded his story.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/278428/v ... flict.html
.
Jos went around making statements about how Horner continuing in Red Bull was creating friction inside the team and that the team was falling apart, so Horner should leave the team.

Now Max is saying, there is no conflict? Either Max is naive or just trying to bury the situation his father's jarring stupidity has created. A complete stupid like Jos having been blessed with a child like Max should be the biggest miralce on earth.
Otherwise, he would still be going around drunk and beating people.
.
That was NOT what Jos said. He said that there had to be peace in the team, because if it continued like this the team would fall apart.
Exactly the same as Helmut Marko has said many times before.
Even last week HM: "Concentration on the WCC and WDC and rest must return [because it is still not there]."


"Otherwise, he would still be going around drunk and beating people."

HUH???
The Power of Dreams!

Seanspeed
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Sat May 25, 2024 11:31 am
ME4ME wrote:
Sat May 25, 2024 10:33 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri May 24, 2024 10:51 pm
That's what comes from having a dominant car and a weak team mate. Except for Senna who had a dominant car and a world champion team mate. Senna's performance is one of the reasons he's still held in such high regard.
Tiresome to read these kind of comments. Best car doesn't automatically translate to the record breaking and matching results that Verstappen has achieved. He is probably the single most consistent driver ever. Certainly among the absolute top 3. And Senna might've had a world champion team mate, but so what? Leclerc wiped the floor with Vettel 4xWC in the end. Verstappen would've crushed several world champion drivers if they had been in Perez's seat.

Fair enough to still rate Senna or Schumacher or Hamilton etc as the best. Thats up to each and every person to judge.
But its cheap to imply that these records are to be expected just from having a good car alone. Hamilton had a good car. He broke other records, but not these. He is recognizing Verstappens achievements. Bitter rivals yet he's expressed respect for the achievements, as has Verstappen.
So far, Max's career has mirrored Seb's. Bright early start then crushing performances in a car that suits him to a tee. What happens next? He might end up in the equivalent of the W13 and then look average.

Max is a great driver - one of the greats in the sport. But no one should view any driver through rose-tinted glasses with blinkers fitted too.
Max had just one full year in cars before he joined F1 at 17 years old. Not that he wasn't already very competitive from Day 1, but it shouldn't be surprising it took him a couple more years to really settle in and get into his prime. I think it's a mistake to assume that his current form is only because the car 'suits him to a tee'.

Max is also an elite tier sim racer in GT cars remember, which is an extremely competitive field. It's my impression that Max will be absolutely top tier in F1 up to the point that he loses motivation(and he may retire before it gets to that). He's an absolute machine, not just a driver being flattered by favorable car characteristics.

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ME4ME
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Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:37 pm

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Sat May 25, 2024 11:31 am
So far, Max's career has mirrored Seb's. Bright early start then crushing performances in a car that suits him to a tee. What happens next? He might end up in the equivalent of the W13 and then look average.

Max is a great driver - one of the greats in the sport. But no one should view any driver through rose-tinted glasses with blinkers fitted too.
Absolutely. Agreed. No rose tinted glasses. And also agreed with Vanja the team deserve a huge part of the credit. As it is with any champion. But maybe in particular Red Bull since they've been so so strong over a long period of time. Since 2009 basically.

But just because there have been great drivers before doesn't call for normalizing any record braking achievement. Thats contradictory by definition.

I think Verstappen is more talented and consistent and all rounded than Vettel was even in his prime. 2010-2013 you can argue that Alonso or even Hamilton were better at times or in particular years. There was always the feeling that Vettel was particulary suited to that type of car. Verstappen meanwhile has already gone through big regulation changes and succeeded. He is not a one trick pony. On the contrary its been argued that he's an Alonso type of driver adapting to the machinery he is given. I doubt he will decline to Vettels extent, if I had to guess the future. Nor have Hamilton and Alonso, two other great talents. Senna, we didn't get to see him past his prime, which might leave a rather pure and unfaultable impression. I just think all of these drivers should be credited rather than their success reduced or normalized.

Sergej
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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car can't attack the kerbs, at swimming pool 2 is painful, quite disappointing considering this had to be an area of improving compared to last year

let's hope for a second place which will be difficult though

Cs98
Cs98
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Sergej wrote:
Sat May 25, 2024 12:41 pm
car can't attack the kerbs, at swimming pool 2 is painful, quite disappointing considering this had to be an area of improving compared to last year

let's hope for a second place which will be difficult though
Main problem is the bouncing in slow speed. Max mainly loses the time to Leclerc in the slow speed part of S2 and the final two corners.

SoulPancake13
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Sergej wrote:
Sat May 25, 2024 12:41 pm
car can't attack the kerbs, at swimming pool 2 is painful, quite disappointing considering this had to be an area of improving compared to last year

let's hope for a second place which will be difficult though
Max will send it second run of Q3, so anything is still possible at this point in time. The S1 performance is immense

avantman
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Cs98 wrote:
Sat May 25, 2024 12:45 pm
Sergej wrote:
Sat May 25, 2024 12:41 pm
car can't attack the kerbs, at swimming pool 2 is painful, quite disappointing considering this had to be an area of improving compared to last year

let's hope for a second place which will be difficult though
Main problem is the bouncing in slow speed. Max mainly loses the time to Leclerc in the slow speed part of S2 and the final two corners.
max was faster in the last 2 corners. he's losing a lot everywhere on S2.

Sergej
Sergej
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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S1 is good but not enough to make up for losses in S2/S3; anyway all considered a second place would be more than good, this is not the season where target is win every race

only a bit of disappointment to see the car struggling in the supposed areas of improvement

avantman
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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SoulPancake13 wrote:
Sat May 25, 2024 12:47 pm
Sergej wrote:
Sat May 25, 2024 12:41 pm
car can't attack the kerbs, at swimming pool 2 is painful, quite disappointing considering this had to be an area of improving compared to last year

let's hope for a second place which will be difficult though
Max will send it second run of Q3, so anything is still possible at this point in time. The S1 performance is immense
if he'll have that second run, and given last few years stats, chances aren't that big he will.

avantman
avantman
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Sergej wrote:
Sat May 25, 2024 12:51 pm
S1 is good but not enough to make up for losses in S2/S3; anyway all considered a second place would be more than good, this is not the season where target is win every race

only a bit of disappointment to see the car struggling in the supposed areas of improvement
2nd place to start the race could be great as they can win from there. but I frankly doubt Sainz will be as far away in Q3. he ll be within 0.15s-0.2s max off \Leclerc. but there are some other fast cars. Alonso might make as surprised again.

Cs98
Cs98
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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avantman wrote:
Sat May 25, 2024 12:50 pm
Cs98 wrote:
Sat May 25, 2024 12:45 pm
Sergej wrote:
Sat May 25, 2024 12:41 pm
car can't attack the kerbs, at swimming pool 2 is painful, quite disappointing considering this had to be an area of improving compared to last year

let's hope for a second place which will be difficult though
Main problem is the bouncing in slow speed. Max mainly loses the time to Leclerc in the slow speed part of S2 and the final two corners.
max was faster in the last 2 corners. he's losing a lot everywhere on S2.
He's definitely not faster in the last corner. That bump is unsettling the RB.