Ferrari SF-24

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dani5549
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Re: Ferrari SF-24

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I don't understand why everyone seemed to expect big bodywork changes. What did you want? Zeropod? Majority of the car performance is in the underbody and we can't see that obviously. As long as the update fixes tyre warm up issue and we regain some slow turns speed by the suspension changes i am happy. We are closer to Red Bull in the standings than McLaren so no need to worry that much.

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Vanja #66
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bananapeel23 wrote:
Fri May 10, 2024 4:56 pm
Firstly, This is nothing compared to the hilarious mockery of the regulations that was the wing with a pseudo-endplate that Aston Martin designed and ran at Hungary and Singapore 2022.

Secondly, That thing is going to whip up a big ol' vortex, right? Wouldn't that be unnecessarily draggy as opposed to a smoother transition and produce a whole lot of dirty air? What purpose could an almost entirely detached upper element serve if it's draggy? I mean flat wing edges worked pre-2022 due to endplates, but surely they are way too draggy now?

Are they just trading aerodynamic efficiency for pure downforce by running the longest upper element possible? Does this huge upper element mean they can run a more conservative lower element/beam wing? I guess focusing as much of their overbody downforce as possible into the wing element that opens with DRS makes sense from that perspective.

Does the rear wing directly interact with the diffuser expansion in a way that could explain why you would want such a massive vortex?

I don't understand aero and I'm totally just guessing because I want someone smarter to explain or at least speculate. Does anyone smarter than me have a clue?
Very decent analysis :D

A detached and flat flap tip will definitely be more draggy than a curved joint with the endplate like it was during 2022 and early 2023. AMR23 saw a high-df wing in Monaco feature a detached, but slightly curved flap tip. RB20 further exploited this idea and flattened the edge completely.

You'll notice the flap tip is now at a slightly lower angle than before and kept the same height. This means locally the planform area is slightly bigger along with having the top edge which increases this area as well. The vortex that is formed at the wing tip will be formed no matter what, smooth wing-endplate transition only reduces this effect. With a flat detached tip, the vortex core is probably generating strong induced drag, ie the vortex core is generating a strong local suction peak which also helps with overall downforce. Whether Ferrari wanted to increase downforce at reduced efficiency or may have even increased both downforce and efficiency is impossible to say.

Maybe you'll find some useful stuff in this thread as well --> viewtopic.php?t=31625
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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scuderiabrandon
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Re: Ferrari SF-24

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2024 8:10 am
The floor used yesterday was, in fact, new floor. You'd only notice it if you look for smallest of details while knowing there is a change somewhere. The rear area near the edge has a different curvature and was flat before, a very small change but the only one I saw. Once you finally spot it, you can see it really is a bit different from every angle :lol:

From the rear side angle it looks like the undercut might be a bit deeper on the inside, but it's impossible to judge for sure. The top front part of the floor looks virtually the same, not even a slight change. This does not mean it's a bad thing, it simply means Ferrari are making targeted, cost-efficient changes and clearly the underside has changed and this is the part that matters.

https://i.ibb.co/2sd3G1X/comp-3.jpg
A bulge around the NGK logo has appeared and a small rear corner slot gap. The VG's for the edge wing are a little bigger and more pronounced, previously they didn't have a sharp corner.

It's been confirmed that pretty much everything underneath is new.

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yooogurt
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FORZA FERRARI!

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Re: Ferrari SF-24

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Vanja #66
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A few more details worth mentioning. Well, more like defining the scope of the changes visually and comparatively.

New sidepod shape has been noted as slightly tighter and evolved. What I didn't notice so far is that the inlet undercut is definitely higher now, I would say around 20mm. What's more, the entire silhouette is very similar but clearly tighter and evolved. Might be slightly lower drag overall. The shape of the rear waterslide wall looks flatter (Ray Ban area) and Formu1a Uno guys point out at this with top green arrow, so most likely there is a change here as well.

The SIS tube cover is also slightly smaller longitudinally, but still similar in shape.

Image

As for the rear wing, the change is bigger than just the flap tip. Endplate joint is completely different and features shorter local chord, while the twist of the flap towards the tip is significant. This section is now less cambered than before, so I believe the aero efficiency of the wing is most likely improved with this redesign.

Image

With all these details popping up today, the changes of the bodywork and rear wing look a bit more substantial than what it appeared initially. And again, the most important changes will be the ones we don't see under the floor.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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dialtone
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Re: Ferrari SF-24

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Vanja #66 wrote:A few more details worth mentioning. Well, more like defining the scope of the changes visually and comparatively.

New sidepod shape has been noted as slightly tighter and evolved. What I didn't notice so far is that the inlet undercut is definitely higher now, I would say around 20mm. What's more, the entire silhouette is very similar but clearly tighter and evolved. Might be slightly lower drag overall. The shape of the rear waterslide wall looks flatter (Ray Ban area) and Formu1a Uno guys point out at this with top green arrow, so most likely there is a change here as well.

The SIS tube cover is also slightly smaller longitudinally, but still similar in shape.

Image

As for the rear wing, the change is bigger than just the flap tip. Endplate joint is completely different and features shorter local chord, while the twist of the flap towards the tip is significant. This section is now less cambered than before, so I believe the aero efficiency of the wing is most likely improved with this redesign.

Image

With all these details popping up today, the changes of the bodywork and rear wing look a bit more substantial than what it appeared initially. And again, the most important changes will be the ones we don't see under the floor.
That’s a rear wing design that is taking advantage of reduced drag in the rest of the car to increase wing size while overall drag stays the same. I wouldn’t be surprised if next race Ferrari has closed the top speed gap and DRS gain as well.

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Vanja #66
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dialtone wrote:
Sat May 11, 2024 7:46 pm

That’s a rear wing design that is taking advantage of reduced drag in the rest of the car to increase wing size while overall drag stays the same. I wouldn’t be surprised if next race Ferrari has closed the top speed gap and DRS gain as well.
Norris was 3-4 kmh quicker than Piastri in SQ in Miami with new bodywork. However they were equal in Q session, with Norris now being slower, so I think he decided to add a bit on both wings, typically he was 1-2kmh slower than Piastri in Q sessions before Miami. I wouldn't be surprised if Ferrari gain 2kmh with these changes, but it will be difficult to quantify this if Red Bull make a similar gain. We'll see what the situation is in Q3 in Imola
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ringo
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bananapeel23 wrote:
Fri May 10, 2024 2:10 pm
Man, Ferrari really loves spending time on weird halo decorations.

First the halo mirrors in 2018 with a winglet hanging off. Then the SF23 with the weird little wings sticking out on top of the halo. Then the first iteration of the SF24 winglets that created a tunnel between the sidepods and the halo. Now these weird S-shaped "cobra" winglets on the SF24 v2. Nto to mention all the small halo covers and the tiny winglets that barely stick out that were used on the SF21 and F1-75.

Why does Ferrari spend so much time and money on halo ornamentation while no one else does? Are the performance benefits thought to be significant at all or are we talking thousandths of a second per lap?

What purpose do they even serve? Is it akin to something like winglets on aircraft that aim to break up vortex formation and reduce drag downstram? Is it more of a flow conditioning thing meant to keep the airflow flowing off the halo nice and predictable when it hits the rear wing?
It's more like theyre obsessed with flow to the rear wing. Thw triangular roll hoop is another thing they tend to do to reduce drag going to the rear wing. So yes a lot focus for them is that flow path above the engine cover leading to the wing. Maybe the cobra winglet enhances the flow at the new sharp rear wing tips to give better top speed. We shall see.
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ringo
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Vanja #66 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2024 7:41 pm
A few more details worth mentioning. Well, more like defining the scope of the changes visually and comparatively.

New sidepod shape has been noted as slightly tighter and evolved. What I didn't notice so far is that the inlet undercut is definitely higher now, I would say around 20mm. What's more, the entire silhouette is very similar but clearly tighter and evolved. Might be slightly lower drag overall. The shape of the rear waterslide wall looks flatter (Ray Ban area) and Formu1a Uno guys point out at this with top green arrow, so most likely there is a change here as well.

The SIS tube cover is also slightly smaller longitudinally, but still similar in shape.

https://i.ibb.co/61zFGV3/Compare-SF-24-2.jpg

As for the rear wing, the change is bigger than just the flap tip. Endplate joint is completely different and features shorter local chord, while the twist of the flap towards the tip is significant. This section is now less cambered than before, so I believe the aero efficiency of the wing is most likely improved with this redesign.

https://i.ibb.co/C6w4fZS/Compare-SF-24-8.jpg

With all these details popping up today, the changes of the bodywork and rear wing look a bit more substantial than what it appeared initially. And again, the most important changes will be the ones we don't see under the floor.
The sis cover being smaller could mean more floor volume underneath. Ferrari could be going more aggresive with the floor having understood how close they can go up against the porpoising limit without the car bouncing too much. I would expect more highspeed grip if the floor is new as well.
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Andi76
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Re: Ferrari SF-24

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Fri May 10, 2024 1:06 pm
It's obvious what the new engine cover outlet looks like, but visuals are always better. The top outlet might be blow-through-flow from S-duct basically

https://i.ibb.co/GCNcvFc/sf-24-rear.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/JygSf2b/sf-24-rear-1.jpg

And a good quality head-on photo from Motorsport

https://cdn-6.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... sf-24.webp
This outlet reminds me of the F2004. Bigger, but already on a Ferrari 20 years ago.

Image

Andi76
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Re: Ferrari SF-24

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ing. wrote:
Fri May 10, 2024 7:40 pm
bananapeel23 wrote:
Fri May 10, 2024 2:10 pm
Man, Ferrari really loves spending time on weird halo decorations.

First the halo mirrors in 2018 with a winglet hanging off. Then the SF23 with the weird little wings sticking out on top of the halo. Then the first iteration of the SF24 winglets that created a tunnel between the sidepods and the halo. Now these weird S-shaped "cobra" winglets on the SF24 v2. Nto to mention all the small halo covers and the tiny winglets that barely stick out that were used on the SF21 and F1-75.

Why does Ferrari spend so much time and money on halo ornamentation while no one else does? Are the performance benefits thought to be significant at all or are we talking thousandths of a second per lap?

What purpose do they even serve? Is it akin to something like winglets on aircraft that aim to break up vortex formation and reduce drag downstram? Is it more of a flow conditioning thing meant to keep the airflow flowing off the halo nice and predictable when it hits the rear wing?
The ‘cobra’ looks do be doing the exact opposite of aircraft winglets—it looks designed to be a VG, shedding a vortex off the outboard tip of the top horizontal plane, which also looks to be cambered and generating some small amount of DF.
The vortex is likely used to strengthen and direct flow over the engine cover.

The twisted support below is either aligned with the flow or is being used to clean up or condition the air coming off the cockpit opening/halo anchoring area.
As ringo has rightly said - this is all to do with Ferrari being unique in terms of a different philosophy - narrow airbox and engine cover, which aims to bring benefits to the airflow to the rear wing (next to a lower CoG due to the low positioning of radiators etc). The work in this area is aimed at further optimizing this airflow and the slight advantage you have here thanks to this philosophy by reducing losses. These are advantages that are actually in the range of thousandths of a second.
miguelalvesreis wrote:
Sat May 11, 2024 1:07 am
Isn't the front suspension geometry also different??


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Good observation, I have already thought the same thing, although the angle can be deceptive here. However, I have also heard that there have actually been slight, barely visible changes in the suspension area.

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Vanja #66
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ringo wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 1:15 am
The sis cover being smaller could mean more floor volume underneath. Ferrari could be going more aggresive with the floor having understood how close they can go up against the porpoising limit without the car bouncing too much. I would expect more highspeed grip if the floor is new as well.
To be honest, I don't think there's any cause-effect relation in this case. Ferrari didn't make any changes to the top side of the floor in frontal area and they could have both decreased and increased floor volume underneath, the chassis and SIS tube weren't changed. That said, their underfloor is quite different from any other, with a sharp leading edge and a very high tunnel roof at the front, with a big sudden drop to under the SIS tube

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Andi76 wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 4:54 am
This outlet reminds me of the F2004. Bigger, but already on a Ferrari 20 years ago.

Image
Very nice catch Andi, thanks for sharing!
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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CaribouBread
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Re: Ferrari SF-24

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 9:13 am

Andi76 wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 4:54 am
This outlet reminds me of the F2004. Bigger, but already on a Ferrari 20 years ago.

https://postimg.cc/WFrVWS44
Very nice catch Andi, thanks for sharing!
Those diffuser strakes are very reminiscent of the floor inlet strakes we have now! :D

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Re: Ferrari SF-24

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