New list of tracks in Google Earth

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Reca
Reca
93
Joined: 21 Dec 2003, 18:22
Location: Monza, Italy

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manchild wrote: That's the jet Gilles Villenueve raced against in 1981. It was given to Ferrari by Italian airforce in 1989. Original numbers were changed to 4 - 27 (4th aircraft maintenance unit from Grosseto) and 27 because it was number Gilles had on all of his Ferrari cars.
A few mistakes there actually.

The “starfighter” in Maranello isn’t the same used during the famous “race” with Gilles. It’s an F104G, amongst the first ones operative in Italy, from first half of 60s (and consequently amongst the first to be dismissed about 25 years later), while the ones used for the straight line races in Istrana were the more recent F104S. For the numbers I heard different opinions, some say that it was changed to 27 before giving it to Ferrari, some that 27 was actually its identification number while at the 4th stormo Amedeo Duca d’Aosta. Both are plausible, I never checked.

27 then wasn’t the only number Gilles had at Ferrari; he had 11, 12, 2 and only in 1981 he got 27 when Ferrari (1-2 in 1980 due to 1979 WDC) switched numbers with Williams (1980 WDC) as rules required at the time. 27 became so strongly associated to him in part because in 1981 his popularity was at peak (in Italy it was called “la Febbre” = “the Fever”), but mainly because it was the last one.

At the end the red F104 on the other thread, is not the one in Maranello and isn’t painted that way in honour to Ferrari but to Ducati.
End of 2004 there was a “race” to celebrate Ducati victory in SBK (hence the colour and the 999 on the fuselage) and the end of F104 very long career in Italian Air Force :
[img::]http://www.rubbermag.com/news/imgs/041027_duc_2.jpg[/img]
Image
The horse on the tailplane then is simply because of the 9th stormo “Francesco Baracca”. The badge of the group is the prancing horse, symbol of the famous aviator of WWI :
Image

Ferrari uses it too because few years after Baracca’s death his family “donated” the prancing horse to Enzo who then inserted it in a yellow badge (yellow being Modena’s colour).

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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It is obvious that those are just same type of figher but not same one (the one functional has some white on it).

Regarding the one exhibited:
http://digilander.libero.it/air10/f104/ferrari.htm wrote:Il 21 novembre 1981 si svolse sulla pista di Istrana una singolare sfida (ma non fu la prima), tra una macchina ed un aereo. Nel duello si confrontarono le migliori Formula 1 del momento con alcuni F-104S. Il più veloce fu Gilles Villeneuve su Ferrari.

In ricordo dell'episodio, il 17 settembre 1989, l'Aeronautica Militare Italiana decise di donare alla scuderia di Maranello l'F-104 MM 6546.

L'esemplare è stato interamente dipinto in rosso e riporta i numeri 4-27, dove il quattro indica il 4° RMV (Reparto Manutenzione Velivoli) di Grosseto, mentre il 27 era il numero utilizzato in gara da Gilles.

L'aereo è oggi esposto all'interno dell'autodromo di Fiorano, di proprietà della Ferrari.
Le condizioni del velivolo - conservato all'aperto a pochi metri dalla pista senza alcuna protezione - sono da considerarsi precarie. In molte parti il rosso ormai non esiste più, "corroso" da pioggia, sole e smog. Peccato!

babelfish silly English translation wrote:21 November 1981 a singular challenge was carried out on the track of Istrana (but it was not before), between one machine and an airplane. In the best duel they were confronted Formula 1 of the moment with some F-104S. Fastest it was Gilles Villeneuve on Ferrari.

In memory of the episode, the 17 september 1989, the Italian Air Force decided to donate to the scuderia of Maranello the F-104 MM 6546.

The copy has been entire painted in red and filler numbers 4-27, where the four indicates 4° the RMV (Unit Maintenance Aircrafts) of Grosseto, while the 27 were the number used in contest from Gilles.

The airplane today is exposed to the inside of the automobile race track of Fiorano, of property of the Ferrari.
The conditions of the aircraft - conserved to the open to little meters from the track without some protection - are from considering predecay. In many you leave the red one by now does not exist more, "corroded" from rain, sun and smog. Sin!
As this author said, it a shame that Ferrari allowed that this historic airplane ends up in rust. I wouldn't cost them much to clean it up and repaint it once in a while but having in mind who was running Ferrari in recent years it is not surprising that heritage comes last.

I know some might say that I'm just ranting again but if they can spend several hundreds of millions per year on F1 that for sure they could spend few thousand euros or less per year to keep this airplane rust-free and shining.

Reca
Reca
93
Joined: 21 Dec 2003, 18:22
Location: Monza, Italy

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manchild wrote: It is obvious that those are just same type of figher but not same one (the one functional has some white on it).
Obvious ? Yes, to me just like to anybody already knowing that they are two different planes.
For someone ignoring it, I don’t know. He reads a few posts about a plane in Maranello, follows a link given to “demonstrate” that someone knows about the F104 in Maranello, finds a pic of a red plane with a prancing horse on the tailplane and the caption you wrote says “Ferrari F104”... Maybe I’m a bit slow, but honestly in such situation I would think it was the same plane repainted.

As for the article in the link, it confirms what I said. The 6546, as you can see in the same website clicking on the left on “tutti i Centoquattro”, was a 104G, while the ones used for the event in Istrana were 104S.
Then the article gives as fact that the number was changed. For that, I repeat, I heard different versions.

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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You can't leave the airplane outside from 1989, leave it for 15 years under the sky and than repaint it and fly it. That is why I said that it is obvious that those are two different machines. Fact that satellite snapshot from Google earth was taken in 2006 confirms that one F104 is still at Fiorano and that other one was flown in 2004 for Ducatti promotion. Photo from that Italian site was taken in 2001. No one would invest money in rebuilding of airplane that was rotting for 15 years, fly it few times and than take it back to Fiorano to rot again. Also, the Google earth shapshot shows no sign of black and white as can be seen on Ducatti version.

Reca
Reca
93
Joined: 21 Dec 2003, 18:22
Location: Monza, Italy

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You are missing the point.
Do you agree that someone following the same path I described in my previous post could believe, from the chain of info you wrote, that the pic of the red airplane with the prancing horse on the tail and captioned by you “Ferrari F104 ;-)”, is related somehow to Ferrari ?
Because that’s all my correction was about, that airplane labelled “Ferrari F104” has nothing to do with Ferrari and I explained why.
The fact that I also specified that the 999 wasn’t the same as the 4-27 was for completeness. It was maybe obvious, probably nobody would have thought about it anyway, still I decided to write it clearly so that there’s no confusion and one doesn’t need to look at more or less evident clues to know it.
manchild wrote: As this author said, it a shame that Ferrari allowed that this historic airplane ends up in rust. I wouldn't cost them much to clean it up and repaint it once in a while but having in mind who was running Ferrari in recent years it is not surprising that heritage comes last.
The people that have been running Ferrari in the recent years, as much as you hate them, took a factory that was in a disastrous situation, not only in F1 where at the time Ferrari was living basically a internal war between two separate factions, but also in term of quality of production cars. They took that sinking boat and transformed it in a factory in excellent conditions at every level. It took long, and maybe the work isn’t finished yet, and you can improve things here and there but they worked and are working for it and they are doing it for heritage and future of Ferrari.

They reorganised the whole F1 factory putting everything back in Maranello, creating the necessary up to date tools and infrastructures, and forgetting about that “technological centre” or whatever it was called that Barnard built in UK. Started a long term plan that in few years led from the low points of Alesi-Berger days when a win was a mirage to the era from 1997 till 2006 when, with only exception of 2005, Ferrari either won WCC and WDC or at least fought for them both till the very last races.

The same people then reorganised the production line and put down the basis for a continuous improvement of the models that from the low point of early 90s, slowly got better with the F355 and 456 and finally, in most part with the F360 and 550 generation, and definitively now with F430, Scaglietti and 599GTB includes in each category cars matching what a Ferrari should be in term of style, quality, performance and reliability. 5000 cars sold per year (maximum of production potential) and thousands people all over the world happy to wait years for one of them are there to demonstrate it.
Contemporarily Ferrari realized directly racing versions of the cars that private teams then used with success in different championships, as for example GT2.

A similar thing they did with Maserati, that was even less than a shadow of the glorious past and now not only is back on production with cars of definitively higher quality than in 90s, but is also back and winning on the tracks with the MC12.

They then gave to Ferrari and Maserati costumers the possibility to race on track with the new cars. With the Ferrari Challenge in categories for gentlemen and for professional races, that with F355 at the start and the F360 then had incredible success in several countries all over the world. And is now promising to be even more successful with the F430 Challenge, a “normal” F430 with original engine and gearbox, that simply stripped of useless accessories and with just few modifications on suspensions to use slick tyres, is on the track a very fast car, sign of the quality of the project.
And people could race in an even easier way with the Gransport, cars prepared directly by Maserati, the driver had just to arrive at the track for the weekend and was given everything needed to race and have fun.

Then they organised a real championship, the Historic challenge, with several meetings in the most beautiful track of Europe, to give to the lucky collectors owning old Ferrari and Maserati cars from any era the possibility to use them in a real competition.

Then they created an entire department “F1 clienti” for maintenance of the old F1 owned by costumers where a team of specialised mechanics, often the same people that worked with these cars on the track, work to keep these jewels dating from early 70s till present days, in perfect efficiency as if these were new, they are ready to build any part if required, exactly with same specifications as original.

In Maranello then in the recent years it was completed the Galleria Ferrari, a museum with 3 floors and an amphitheatre full of the most beautiful pieces of Ferrari history, in part permanent exhibition and in part changing every few months to display elements related to specific periods or events. To talk about what is contained there would take days.

So much for “heritage comes last”.

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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Yes, yes... I agree about the first part :wink:

I'm aware about their heritage related actions but seeing that airplane rotten as if it is some Mig 17 exposed at some former Russian airbase makes me wonder.

I'm sure that Eurofighter Schuey raced against will be polished 24/7 in some special built hangar. :roll: