Vodaphone McLaren Mercedes MP4-24

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donskar
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Re: Vodaphone McLaren Mercedes 2009 MP4-24 Launch

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I suppose this belongs here -- Ron Dennis announcing that he'll hand over to Whitmarsh in March. And a nice accolade from de Montezemelo.

Seriously doubt McL will miss a beat. They are the team I love to hate, but are superbly organized and managed.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

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Shaddock
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Re: Vodaphone McLaren Mercedes 2009 MP4-24 Launch

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ESPImperium wrote:Im gonna ask a question about those Multi-Element front wings. Is it legal to dial in the bottom element to have a steeper profile to give more downforce in the more slow to medium sections of a cource, but the upper profile to have a less steep profile so to not give away too much in the mid to high speed sections.
If you look closely at the front wing you can see that the upper element is the one that moves and the lower element is fixed. The mechanism for this is built into the end plate.

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McLaren, BMW and Honda all ran 09 spec front wings in testing. With McLaren using their interim wing at launch, it will be interesting to see if BMW release their car with that monstrosity of a front wing they had at before Christmas or an updated version.

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There doesn't seem to any thing in the regs that would prohibit a steeper angle on the upper element:-


3.18 Driver adjustable bodywork :
A single closed section situated each side of car centre line in the volume bounded by :
- lines 450mm and 800mm in front of the front wheel centre line ;
- a vertical plane which intersects these lines at a distance 250mm from the car centre line ;
is allowed to change incidence while the vehicle is in motion within a maximum range of 6 degrees.

Conceptual
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Re: Vodaphone McLaren Mercedes 2009 MP4-24 Launch

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Is there anything keeping the front wing outer elements from connecting to the FOM camera housing?

Miguel
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Re: Vodaphone McLaren Mercedes 2009 MP4-24 Launch

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Conceptual wrote:Is there anything keeping the front wing outer elements from connecting to the FOM camera housing?
AFAIK, the rules specify 8 possible spots where a number of cameras (4?) must be housed. Every team chooses the mountings for each race and can change between cars of the same team.
I am not amazed by F1 cars in Monaco. I want to see them driving in the A8 highway: Variable radius corners, negative banking, and extreme narrowings that Tilke has never dreamed off. Oh, yes, and "beautiful" weather tops it all.

"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future." Niels Bohr

boci
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Re: Vodaphone McLaren Mercedes 2009 MP4-24 Launch

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Is it sad that now that i remembered the BMW test car and i think that it looks better then all of the new 2009 cars....?

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Rob W
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Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:28 am

Re: Vodaphone McLaren Mercedes 2009 MP4-24 Launch

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ESPImperium wrote:Is it legal to dial in the bottom element to have a steeper profile to give more downforce in the more slow to medium sections of a cource, but the upper profile to have a less steep profile so to not give away too much in the mid to high speed sections.
It is totally legal I imagine but pointless - I doubt it would work. The middle element works best as long as the proceeding element further increases the deflection of the airflow to create downforce. The idea you suggested would seem to have them instead fighting each other. (this assuming they're solid which, from history, we know they're not always).

Someone who is an aero expert will likely have a far simpler explanation for this though.

Miguel
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Re: Vodaphone McLaren Mercedes 2009 MP4-24 Launch

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Rob W wrote:Someone who is an aero expert will likely have a far simpler explanation for this though.
I'm no aero expert at all, but the profile ESPImperium put seems identical to a plane using it's ailerons on a wing to bank via loss of lift (downforce). Whether that's more efficient or not than modifying the final element I don't know. I'd suppose it's not, though.

My wild guess will be that the front wing will be set up the optimum way, and the upper element will increase its angle of attack when a car is in front, similar to how flaps work on planes.
I am not amazed by F1 cars in Monaco. I want to see them driving in the A8 highway: Variable radius corners, negative banking, and extreme narrowings that Tilke has never dreamed off. Oh, yes, and "beautiful" weather tops it all.

"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future." Niels Bohr

Deerfield805
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Re: Vodaphone McLaren Mercedes 2009 MP4-24 Launch

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Is there a rear suspension piece missing? Most open wheel cars have a link behind the upper A arm, usually called a locator link/arm? Also what would be the advantage of moving the steering arm (if that's what it is) out of the front upper A arm? Finally notice the end plates on the upper part of the rear wing. Why the horizontal slits? Looks like they will release air that would flow over the wing. Great looking car.

roost89
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Re: Vodaphone McLaren Mercedes 2009 MP4-24 Launch

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Deerfield805 wrote:Finally notice the end plates on the upper part of the rear wing. Why the horizontal slits? Looks like they will release air that would flow over the wing. Great looking car.
The slits are there to reduce drag coming from the rear wing. I'm not sure about the suspension question at all though
"It could be done manually. It would take quite a while, but it could be done. There is however a much more efficient and accurate way of getting the data. Men with lasers." Wing Commander Andy Green

Conceptual
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Re: Vodaphone McLaren Mercedes 2009 MP4-24 Launch

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Deerfield805 wrote:Is there a rear suspension piece missing? Most open wheel cars have a link behind the upper A arm, usually called a locator link/arm? Also what would be the advantage of moving the steering arm (if that's what it is) out of the front upper A arm? Finally notice the end plates on the upper part of the rear wing. Why the horizontal slits? Looks like they will release air that would flow over the wing. Great looking car.
I am totally guessing here, but compare it to some of the McLaren setups from the 90's, and you may just find your answers!

Deerfield805
Deerfield805
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Re: Vodaphone McLaren Mercedes 2009 MP4-24 Launch

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Just noticed that the F-60 has the extra rear suspension link. Check the overhead comparison photo in the Toyota rollout thread. The Toyota, like the McLaren is without.

myurr
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Re: Vodaphone McLaren Mercedes 2009 MP4-24 Launch

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Shaddock wrote:
myurr wrote:
Shaddock wrote:The front wing looks very underdeveloped and looks as if McLaren are keeping their cards very close to their chest for the first race. Crude would be an understatement.
Would agree with you about the end plates, but on the other side it's the only multi-element wing out there, so if anything it's more highly developed. Expect the end plates to evolve somewhat before the first race.
Nothing seems to have changed much to the front wing since before christmas during initial testing. It may be multi-element but its still a crude first attempt.
I think it's deceptive as they appear to be going with a different design philosophy to Ferrari and Toyota. Those teams are pushing the air around the outside of the front tyres whereas McLaren are lifting the air up and over and to the inside of the tyre. So while the wing will not doubt be updated it may not need as radical an update as you are expecting.

The more I look at it the more advanced the McLaren car appears, definitely looks the part - whether that translates to actual performance though remains to be seen.

D'Leh
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Re: Vodaphone McLaren Mercedes 2009 MP4-24 Launch

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Deerfield805 wrote:Just noticed that the F-60 has the extra rear suspension link. Check the overhead comparison photo in the Toyota rollout thread. The Toyota, like the McLaren is without.
McLaren and Toyota have them too of course. They are just harder to see on those low res pictures. Check the pictures linked here to see them.

Cheers

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Roland Ehnström
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Re: Vodaphone McLaren Mercedes 2009 MP4-24 Launch

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I find it fascinating to compare the MP4/24 to the F60, they really are radically different! The Ferrari has the cockpit positioned much further forward, the nosecone is long and sharp and and the rear is low and slim. The McLaren has a much higher waistline, a surprisingly high rear end, a tiny airscoop, those incredible oval-shaped radiator inlets, beautiful integrated exhausts and a rather fat, rounded, dropping nose. The Ferrari looks absolutely gorgeous (apart from the rear wing), while the McLaren looks a bit fat but has some incredible details.

I have a feeling that the high waist-line of the McLaren may be a stroke of genious, as it must go very well together with the high rear wing. I believe the Ferrari will be faster in a straight line, though, which could make for some exciting races!

Oh, and the Toyota is butt-ugly with that horrible short and high nose, and it looks very basic apart from the curvy front wing endplates. Could still be fast, but I wouldn't bet on it.

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djos
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Re: Vodaphone McLaren Mercedes 2009 MP4-24 Launch

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Defiantely an amazing design!

Have you folk noticed the insides of the ovoid radiator intakes? You can see some unpainted carbon sculpting that seems to compress and funnel the air downwards and slightly towards the center of the car.

I suspect that the engines running at a max of 18,000rpm dont need as much cooling as in previous years?

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The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.