New Indycar for 2012

[Mystery Steve]

I thought wings over top of tires were not a good idea like the CDG showed there was too much interation between the tire and wing, and made it very unpredictable and inefficient.

Yes, but if you're not getting as much of your downforce from the wings is the effect as great? I don't necessarily know, but it's worth a thought... That aside, this is a concept model and not necessarily a model of what is actually going to be built.

Despite the possible rear wing/tire problems, I do think the car looks badass. The anhedral front wing reminds me of the superspeedway Reynards built for CART in the late 1990s, which I always enjoyed watching. I would be interested to see the nose and rear wing they intend to fit to it for the road courses. At the very least, they are making an effort to move the IRL in a direction that could make the series competitive and sustainable, rather than just rely on the 500 until they eventually go bust.

[Giblet]

Very true

I was more pointing to the fact that this car's design doesn't seem to address all the major concerns of the IRL (Since Tony George was forced out by his own family).

From what I gather, IRL needs three things to take place in the new car design. The main concern was how to deal with front to rear wheel contact, which this car apparently doesn't address. The second issue was the lump. IRL wants the GRE (Global Race Engine, or World Engine to the unlearned) concept pushed forward to bring costs down, and thrid, the car needs to be an eye catcher to save the league. Last year was the lowest 500 viewership in Indiana, which is a good guage to the rest of the world.

The little front wings are cool looking. The forward swept concept might add instability, but it does look neat like the old CART cars on the ovals.

Too bad those cars with the little front wings and the Hanford Wing were responsible for these cars racing at 250mph+ on the straights, with 230+ average speeds on ovals like Michigan.

Zanardi and local boy Greg Moore showed those speeds are too high, and anytime a car is hit in an odd way, there was death or dismemberment.

If the venturi tunnels produce/limit most of the downforce, then the wings might do very little.

EDIT: After reading the article, the car does meet many of the needs. the engine is a separate concept, and this car doesn't need to prove the engine. The Sidepod does stop much of the wheel to contact.

I just really wouldn't want to hit one from behind. I would be under it very, VERY quickly

[Professor]

I'd like to see the bottom of the car. It is obviously a ground effects car with huge tunnels underneath to channel the air to the large difusser.The small front wings prepare the air and channels it to the tunnels. The rear wing conditions the exit airflow.

[rjsa]

I'd like to see the bottom of the car. It is obviously a ground effects car with huge tunnels underneath to channel the air to the large difusser.The small front wings prepare the air and channels it to the tunnels. The rear wing conditions the exit airflow.

What car are you talking about?

If it's the Honda model I'm sorry but I have to disagree. Both wings are artist's interpretations. The front one makes no sense, it's written stall all over it with a 30deg or so attack angle. The hear one is plain flat - and is not vertically aligned with the venturi exits. And we also miss the entrace to the tunnel.

[Shrek]

wow thats horrible looking

looks worse than the Renault R29

[roost89]

Recently IRL put out a new tender for cars.
Lola, Dallara, Swift and Delta Wing Group have shown interest.
3 of them have released details:

At the heart of Lola’s presentation to the IRL Board was a carefully considered modern dual body style approach. This concept will provide two ready to race aero performance balanced Indycars that could compete even safer side by side and very close behind one another on all circuits. This would provide a unique focus for drivers, teams and fans alike without technical compromise or advantage and in addition would accommodate a dual engine supply situation if required.

Now, I have a few questions I hope you can answer.
1) What's a dual-body?
2) A dual-engine. Is that 2 engines running at the same time?

This proposal, to me, seems to be very interesting. If the 2 engines running at the same time idea is true. I can see situations for advancing engine usage, such as selectively closing off certain cylinders to increase distance between fuel-stops.
From what I've seen of Indycar, admittedly not much, they do try to stay out for as long as they possibly can and tend to gain many places by doing so.

Discussions with league officials have resulted in a much lighter, more efficient car with less drag and more downforce.
Safety has been improved with increased resistance to frontal lift and improved yaw stability. Improved raceability also has been addressed in the design with less sensitive aerodynamics in traffic for better overtaking and the reduced incidence of wheel-to-wheel contact.

The cost of the complete package to compete on a variety of racetracks (superspeedway, speedway, short oval, road course and temporary circuits) will be reduced to 55% of the current car cost. Teams will carry much smaller quantities of spares because it requires less parts specific to individual types of tracks, which is another cost saving measure.

I couldn't get a link directly from their site, but their is information there.

The Dallara from Autosport


Swift Engineering gave no information on its car. However they've released images. They appear to have 2 seperate designs. One seems entirely conceptual and one, more realistic.





Delta-Wing are releasing details later.

Here's a comparison picture, to show the difference they're making in the design of the car:

[CMSMJ1]

I think they are talking about a set of bodywork that you can have either A version or B version. Look different but perform the same...so you can pretend that the cars are different.

The dual motor is just that - either current engine or a new one, both can fit in the chassis and you can then have 4 different looking and sounding cars that are actually the same animal..

A lame idea...

[bill shoe]

The fundamental difficulty with modern Indycar specs is making them slow enough on superspeedways like Indy and fast enough on road courses like Long Beach or Watkins Glen. Modern aero is advanced enough that you can go dangerously fast at Indy with a power level that still creates slow accel (by Pro standards) on road courses.

The current Indycar is already considered a bit of a road course dog with around 600 hp. The only way you can really get what you want at both places is to have different bodywork/wings and different power levels.

Indycar has been interested in going back to turbo engines because changing the boost is one one to achieve very different power levels. Another way would be to have completely different engines that both mount to the same tub and transmission, and this may be what Lola is talking about.

It will be interesting to see if the delta wing group addresses this fundamental issue at their press conference on Wednesday or if it's strictly a styling buck debut. So far the other manufacturers and their press releases have just given a bunch of vaugue mumbo-jumbo. I have the impression Indycar has found itself in the middle of a struggle for the future of Indycar, but they don't really know what they want themselves.

[Giblet]

[roost89]

The fundamental difficulty with modern Indycar specs is making them slow enough on superspeedways like Indy and fast enough on road courses like Long Beach or Watkins Glen. Modern aero is advanced enough that you can go dangerously fast at Indy with a power level that still creates slow accel (by Pro standards) on road courses.

The current Indycar is already considered a bit of a road course dog with around 600 hp. The only way you can really get what you want at both places is to have different bodywork/wings and different power levels.

Indycar has been interested in going back to turbo engines because changing the boost is one one to achieve very different power levels. Another way would be to have completely different engines that both mount to the same tub and transmission, and this may be what Lola is talking about.

It will be interesting to see if the delta wing group addresses this fundamental issue at their press conference on Wednesday or if it's strictly a styling buck debut. So far the other manufacturers and their press releases have just given a bunch of vaugue mumbo-jumbo. I have the impression Indycar has found itself in the middle of a struggle for the future of Indycar, but they don't really know what they want themselves.

Thanks for the answer to the dual-body and engine 'bill shoe'

They really did just have mumbo-jumbo. I was hopeful of making a nice wee article on the new 2012 Indycars and learning something about them, as I don't get the chance to watch them. But I came across piles of nothing-ness and posturing. Lola had the most information, but it's still not enough for me anyway.

It will be interesting. I'll update this when they show off their concept in a few days time. The will hopefully have a bit more information on what they're trying to achieve and how they're going about achieving it.

@Giblet. Isn't that from a film? The white one.

[Giblet]

Speed Racer.

[countersteer]

I think the unveiling of the Delta Project will really get things hopping. I agree with the statement that they're really fighting over control of the series.

[ESPImperium]

I think that the next generation Indy Car should look like a modren single seater, but with handeling that provides it to be fast and safe enough on both road courses and ovals. Personally i think that Indy should allow for multiple Chassis manufacturers, posibly 3 licences, with 3 engine licences and each engine manufacturer to be able to supply a new modren block or the current block for those who want the old block as they like it or cant afford a new block.

What it should have is theese basic needs:

* Fast on roadcourses, but slow enough on ovals.
* Provide close racing to Indy principles.
* Open up competition between chassis and engine manufacturers
* Standardise the transmission
* Run a modren ECU, posibly run the McLaren SECU.
* Allow for quick and easy changes real time to the car (Movable wings for example)

Basically, an refreshing change to what they have currently and become closer to what a single seater is now accross the world from F1 and GP2 to Formula Nippon. But not ruin the sport like what the "Car Of The Future" arguably did in NASCAR.

[dp35]

My interpretation of the "dual body" concept, was that they'd use one for ovals and the other for road courses. But of course that's just a guess based on the limited info given.

I'm also guessing that IndyCar asked for a version that wouldn't allow interlocking wheels, and that's why we see the odd looking "Speed Racer" 2nd option from Swift.

Speed Racer's Mach 5 really was way ahead of its time.

[ISLAMATRON]

Dual body, as it has usually been implied in AOWR usually means 2 packages of wings, 1 for road courses and another for superspeedways... but they seem to be hinting at something else.

Regarding the duel engines, INDYcar discussion for the next engine formula have neen mainly taking place with Honda who has supported the series greatly for the last several years and VW/audi who are interested in getting invovled... problem is that Honda, who is interested in having competition, want a v-6 turbo while VW is more interested in a 4 cylinder turbo that will comply with the world engine rules... I'm guessing dual engine means something that can accomodate both engine setups easily.

They need to make a decision if they want to continue having the fastest spec series in the world or if they want design competition.