Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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Shrieker
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Joined: 01 Mar 2010, 23:41

Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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Shrieker wrote:
segedunum wrote:
Vettel didn't push Hamilton anywhere.
Talk about 'delusion' and 'fantasy' , eh ?
segedunum wrote:
Shrieker wrote:Talk about 'delusion' and 'fantasy' , eh ?
Yes I know. It seems that many people have fantasised that Hamilton got out at the same time as Vettel, and alongside, or perhaps even ahead of him.

Alas, and interestingly, no one wants to actually argue that Vettel wasn't ahead (can you?). Until someone can successfully argue that (good luck) then the discussion over this incident is most firmly over and can't go anywhere.
So you wanna play smart ?

....
Last edited by mx_tifoso on 19 Apr 2010, 23:47, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed un-smart comment about safety mechanism.
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andrew
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Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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Guys, just a suggestion but this thread may be more appropriate for the Hamilton pitlane issue. This one has been up for a while now and there is a fair bit of discussion there already about the pitlane.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8394

Cheers! :wink:

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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segedunum wrote: There is pictorial evidence that says all four wheels were over the line of the pit lane entry - even though there is no such ruling about 'four wheels'!
Again, that's in the Appendix L bit too:
Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance of
doubt:
- the white lines defining the track edges are considered to
be part of the track but the kerbs are not and
- a driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the
car remains in contact with the track
.
Should a car leave the track for any reason, and without
prejudice to 2(d) below, the driver may rejoin. However, this
may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining
any advantage.
Does that help with the balanced discussion you boys are having?

It should be noted that several drivers, including Vettel, at some point in their pit stops fully crossed out of the pit lane (as in no part of the car within the lines denoting the pit lane) at the left corner in the pit lane entry.

The stewards presumably considered none of these to be dangerous and therefore not worthy of penalty.

The one incident that was actually fully against the rules was Alonso's move on Massa. He went from being behind to in front of Massa by cutting the same bit of the corner that several others did. He also caused Massa to have to leave the track. Both of those would normally be worthy of comment by the stewards if they occured out on the 'main' part of the track.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

MuseF1
MuseF1
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Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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andrew wrote:Guys, just a suggestion but this thread may be more appropriate for the Hamilton pitlane issue. This one has been up for a while now and there is a fair bit of discussion there already about the pitlane.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8394

Cheers! :wink:
=D>

andrew
andrew
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Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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Just a thought, but what might be the way forward is for the FIA to clarify the rules for the pitlane entrance. There seems to be differing opinions on whether or not the pitlane access road has the same rules as the rest of the pitlane, albeit without the speed limit.

If it is part of the race track then Alonso overtaking Massa and Hamilton overtaking Vettel on the access road would be legal, but dangerous. If it is part of the pit then there should not be any racing in the pits penalties shold be issued.

I think the race stewards have just chalked it up to the adrenelin of being in a close race with a wild tyre strategy. But anyway the race stewards decision has been made and it does not look like any of the teams are appealing it so they clearly have no concerns.

Hopefully Barcelona will be more straight forward!

Also meant to write this earlier:

Well done to Petrov for getting his first points in F1. The first of many hopefully! =D>

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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The rules are perfectly fine, the curb and the grass denotes the track boundary. The lines are just for presentation. :lol:
Alonso was within the rules as well since all 4 wheels did not go beyond the curb.



Image

Alonso and Hamilton are just smarter than the average bear. :mrgreen:

And whiners are saying " hey!!! why didn't my driver think of that?!!"
Image :lol:

"It has to be illegal, it just has to!! My driver didn't do it, so none can!! and if they did, they deserve a penalty!!!" 8)
Image
For Sure!!

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TheMinister
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Joined: 20 Feb 2008, 00:03

Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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And so, each driver gets a 'reprimand'- so no penalty at all.

Perhaps they both drove within the rules, if so then the rules must be changed.

Here is why:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CdSoJYF ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5tBT-_k ... re=related (from 3 mins)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-Je-LbDTFc

Injuries and 1 death in those three clips, all mechanics in the pit lane (not always cars coming together but the point is the same).

There is potential for an absolutely horrific accident in the pitlane. If Hamilton and Vettel had touched wheels, it could well have launched one of them into the air, or spun one of them.

The next big accident in F1 could well happen in similar circumstances. It seems absolutely absurd not to do anything about it when it would be no problem to.

Remote_Access
Remote_Access
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Joined: 19 Apr 2010, 09:51

Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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segedunum wrote:BLAH BLAH BLAH
Seg, I must say that for all your posts and obvious commitment to what you say, you (and others) aren't really adding value to the discussion. In general I find your posts to be highly pro-Red Bull and anti-McLaren and generally highly antagonistic towards others.

Since you're so clearly interested in convincing everyone that you are right, you may like to give consideration to ways you can present your message so that people's eyes don't glaze over when you post. I, for one, simply scroll over your posts and post this out of frustration that I can't follow any race discussion (or other discussions about, say, the MP4/25) because you insist on carrying on some sort of war of attrition on those who disagree with you.

You're not the only one in the wrong, sure, but I'm sure that, if you take a step back, even you can understand why I'm singling you out.

Giblet
Giblet
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Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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If the Pit Entrance falls under the same umbrella of rules as the Pit Lane, why is there no speed limit in the Pit Entrance?

If the rules about the Pit Lane speed do not apply to the Pit Entrance, how can you possibly assume any other rules of the Pit Lane, or the Pit Exit apply?
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

Giblet
Giblet
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Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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segedunum wrote: 1. That all four of Hamilton's wheels weren't over the white line, therefore it was all OK. There is pictorial evidence that says all four wheels were over the line of the pit lane entry - even though there is no such ruling about 'four wheels'! It's if you drive anywhere outside of the pit area to gain entrance, or exit.
If a car goes off track, and comes back on, while not passing (ie already past a certain SV) then there are no rules broken. This is under the assumption that the pit entrance is not part of the pit lane, but part of the race track. If the pit entrance is part of the pit lane like you insist, and not just part of the race track, why is there no speed limit? The pit lane rules are very clear, there is no doubt about that from either of us. If by hitting the speed limit line, you suddenly have to follow all the pit lane rules, it would be wise to assume, by exclusion, that anything up to that line is not the pit lane.

You are focusing on the number of wheels, I am focusing on what part of the track the pit entrance is defined as. If you can say what part of the track it is, then the rules are easy to bring forward and apply. If it just part of the race track, which almost everyone agrees with, then you can exit and renter the track as often as you want, so long as re-entering the track doesn't endanger other drivers, or so long as you didn't exit the track to pass.
segedunum wrote:2. It was OK because Hamilton entered the pit lane from an off-track area, so presumably because he wasn't actually on the track it was then OK. :? We don't seem to have seen or heard of that theory again.
Again, Pit Lane/Pit Entrance. You are interchanging the terms freely and loosely without providing a unique definition of pit entrance, or something to combine the pit entry with the pit lane.
segedunum wrote:3. Even though you've made previous arguments based on the pit lane entry and the white lines that designate it, you now completely ignore them as being a part of the pit lane at all even though there is no ruling that the pit lane begins and ends at the speed line although pit lane entry (and exit) and the track
See my first counterpoint. Same thing.
segedunum wrote:4. Finally, obviously if you ignore the pit lane entry area then you have the problem of the pit lane exit. The only option left is to argue that both are somehow different when there is no ruling anywhere that we have seen that says that they are.
Pit Exit has specific rules about crossing the line separating the track and Pit Exit. I can find no such specific rules to the Pit Entrance, nor can I find any thing claiming it to be a separate entity from the Race Track.

By logical exclusion therefore of the Pit Lane rules coming into effect at the white line (which officially denotes the start of the Pit Lane and Speed Limit), there is nothing that says by article or logic that the Pit Entry is anything but racetrack.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

toshinden
toshinden
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Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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wow, the pit lane war is still in rage :-k

my concern for Hamilton and Vettel case was only on safety issue, it will be a mess if two cars collide in that pitlane. the drivers are not the one to be worried, but the people in the paddock and pit wall were the main concern.
"the day the child realize that all adults are imperfect, he becomes an adolescent; the day he forgives them, he becomes an adult" - Alden Nowlan

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Pierce89
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Joined: 21 Oct 2009, 18:38

Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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Just_a_fan wrote:The one incident that was actually fully against the rules was Alonso's move on Massa. He went from being behind to in front of Massa by cutting the same bit of the corner that several others did. He also caused Massa to have to leave the track. Both of those would normally be worthy of comment by the stewards if they occured out on the 'main' part of the track.
Hamilton pulled an identical pass on Vettel
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mx_tifoso
mx_tifoso
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Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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Image

:shock:
Image


I can imagine how much fun the team spent cleaning out all the gravel and dirt! :lol:
Image
How is the steering wheel turned to the right but the wheels pointing forwards?
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Sean H
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Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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toshinden wrote:wow, the pit lane war is still in rage :-k

my concern for Hamilton and Vettel case was only on safety issue, it will be a mess if two cars collide in that pitlane. the drivers are not the one to be worried, but the people in the paddock and pit wall were the main concern.
Vettel should only be worried if he is stopped at pit exit with a red light and the "boss" is behind him... just ask Kimi.
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mx_tifoso
mx_tifoso
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Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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Sean H wrote:...

Vettel should only be worried if he is stopped at pit exit with a red light and the "boss" is behind him... just ask Kimi.
Image
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