Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

[WhiteBlue]

I agree that we need to see the cars on the limit of traction more often. Then we'd see drivers having to lift off on fast corners, that brings doubt to their mind, that sorts the men from the boys.

There are some classic corners where drivers used to play chicken with the traction and you'd hear them lift off the gas. Nowadays those corners are dead and they keep their foot down the whole way.

exactly =D>

I can even give you year when it all went wrong. In 1999 Jacques Villeneuve and Ricardo Zonta had their Eau Rouge stunts with the BARs and from then on nobody had a problem to pass Eau Rouge/Radillion on full throttle. It shows the problem is as old as the year 2000. This coincides with hugely expensive aero programs by the rich factory financed teams. In fact Jacque probably got his ideas from observing better cars with more downforce not having to lift. So you can conclude that it started to go wrong in 1998 when they cut the car track width from 2000 to 1800 mm and introduced the grooved tyres. Both were wrong because the mechanical grip and stability was reduced and the reliance on aero increased instead of the other way.

[ecapox]

Excellent article....

After all the discussion here and the news everywhere the only thing that makes feel a bit sad is Schumacher´s reputation got dirty once again and this time he isn´t guilty et all...

I dont think his reputation got dirty again. He just did what he thought he should do..or maybe even told to do. If you boss said you were good to go, why would you question that?

[nipo]

Illegal or not, it was the best moment of the season =D>

And I guess it is finally... FINALLY MS's turn for tough luck. According to Rubens he won't be happy sitting in that position... let's see what happens.

Still, I'm so happy he slapped Alonso in the face with that move

[Just_a_fan]

I can even give you year when it all went wrong. In 1999 Jacques Villeneuve and Ricardo Zonta had their Eau Rouge stunts with the BARs and from then on nobody had a problem to pass Eau Rouge/Radillion on full throttle.

Webber stated that Radillon (I think he said Eau Rouge but that's becuase he, like most of us, gets the corner name wrong) and 130R would be easy after he tested the 2.4 V8 which suggests that before then the cars weren't all "easy" flat chat through these fast corners at all.

The problem is just as likely that the cars' power is not sufficently high - they can run at flat throttle through these corners.

One could just as correctly say "let's have 5L V12 with 1200 bhp and no TC etc systems as that will sort out the men from the boys".

Of course, that would also mean Grp C Le Mans speeds on the longer straights too which we're not allowed because it's dangerous etc. etc. It would make the braking distances much longer and more prone to driver errors too of course.

What is being requested by some is a dumbing down of F1. Make it low grip and low power and let's watch the drivers slide around every corner just like Giles did.

And you know what? If the drivers all did it, all of the time, those same people would quickly get bored of that too...

[WhiteBlue]

The problem is just as likely that the cars' power is not sufficently high - they can run at flat throttle through these corners.

One could just as correctly say "let's have 5L V12 with 1200 bhp and no TC etc systems as that will sort out the men from the boys"..

That thinking is flawed, in my view. Once you pass a certain point more power will only be converted to more downforce and higher cornering G forces. We are at the limit currently with 4.5 -5 lateral G what drivers can endure for short time. More power would not make sense at all. It would separate the sane from the suicidal but not the men from the boys.

[internetf1fan]

If anyone is getting desperate, it's Alonso.

Did you see Alonso waving his hand like an idiot when Di Grassi didn't roll out a red carpet for him? Talk about depseration and arrogance.

You made the mistake Alonso, that's why you're at the back fighting for position with the slower drivers, who surprisingly didn't make mistakes like you did.

Welcome to racing Alonso!

[alberto222mx]

I dont think his reputation got dirty again. He just did what he thought he should do..or maybe even told to do. If you boss said you were good to go, why would you question that?

I don´t, unlucky I live in a speaking-spanish country and that seems to be enough reason to support Alonso and crucify Schumacher. All the news you can read or watch in tv says things like "Another illegal manouver from Michael Schumacher", "Another cheat from Schumacher", etc.

Like I said before, is a bit sad...

[Just_a_fan]

The problem is just as likely that the cars' power is not sufficently high - they can run at flat throttle through these corners.

One could just as correctly say "let's have 5L V12 with 1200 bhp and no TC etc systems as that will sort out the men from the boys"..

That thinking is flawed, in my view. Once you pass a certain point more power will only be converted to more downforce and higher cornering G forces. We are at the limit currently with 4.5 -5 lateral G what drivers can endure for short time. More power would not make sense at all. It would separate the sane from the suicidal but not the men from the boys.

I carefully didn't say it was the right thing to do just that it would have the same effect in that power would be excessive for the corners.

I would disagree that downforce would necessarily increase to the same extent either - careful writing of the rules would prevent that. Indeed, careful writing of the rules would have prevented the DD issue too as pointed out by Brawn. Actually, careful writing of the rules would be a godsend for all concerned except the FIA's lawyers...

Hey, fully define the front and rear wings and the diffuser so that you don't leave coach-and-horses loop holes and you could have d/f somewhere around 25% less than 2010 levels and then whack another 200bhp at the rear wheels. Then you'd have cars that were almost as quick in the corners but also a bit of a handful for those who try to get too greedy with the throttle too early. Hey-presto you have cars that will bite whilst also being properly quick (as F1 cars should be but which the current cars don't seem to).

[mep]

I just can't stand why the driver has to suffer for a mistake made by the race organisation, rule makers, or stewards.
Even worse is that people blame Schumacher as cheater now.
Mercedes really should appeal against this decision. The rules are not well defined on that point. Normally you would decide in dubio pro reo. Here you could even judge pro racing. It was just a brilliant move and overtaking should ever be the spirit of the rules.

Now its just worse for the fans and the sport.

[ringo]

Illegal or not, it was the best moment of the season =D>

And I guess it is finally... FINALLY MS's turn for tough luck. According to Rubens he won't be happy sitting in that position... let's see what happens.

Still, I'm so happy he slapped Alonso in the face with that move

.... for you!

It was a nice reminder for me of who Micheal is, and that he's not to be given an inch or he'll take the foot. Alonso learned that lesson.

[WhiteBlue]

Mercedes really should appeal against this decision. The rules are not well defined on that point. Normally you would decide in dubio pro reo. Here you could even judge pro racing. It was just a brilliant move and overtaking should ever be the spirit of the rules.

Now its just worse for the fans and the sport.

Merc decided not to. Obviously there is very little point as the penalty cannot be overthrown by the ICA. They could only achieve some recognition for the claim that the regs are unclear. But that has apparently already been conceded by the FiA. The issue will be on the agenda of the F1 Commission and their working groups.

[adam2007]

If anyone is getting desperate, it's Alonso.

Did you see Alonso waving his hand like an idiot when Di Grassi didn't roll out a red carpet for him? Talk about depseration and arrogance.

You made the mistake Alonso, that's why you're at the back fighting for position with the slower drivers, who surprisingly didn't make mistakes like you did.

Welcome to racing Alonso!

He was pushing very hard he did very good job job sunday to get sixth and probs would have won, if ferrari can keep on redbull he will be champion

[WhiteBlue]

The problem is just as likely that the cars' power is not sufficently high - they can run at flat throttle through these corners.

One could just as correctly say "let's have 5L V12 with 1200 bhp and no TC etc systems as that will sort out the men from the boys"..

That thinking is flawed, in my view. Once you pass a certain point more power will only be converted to more downforce and higher cornering G forces. We are at the limit currently with 4.5 -5 lateral G what drivers can endure for short time. More power would not make sense at all. It would separate the sane from the suicidal but not the men from the boys.

I carefully didn't say it was the right thing to do just that it would have the same effect in that power would be excessive for the corners.

I would disagree that downforce would necessarily increase to the same extent either - careful writing of the rules would prevent that. Indeed, careful writing of the rules would have prevented the DD issue too as pointed out by Brawn. Actually, careful writing of the rules would be a godsend for all concerned except the FIA's lawyers...

Hey, fully define the front and rear wings and the diffuser so that you don't leave coach-and-horses loop holes and you could have d/f somewhere around 25% less than 2010 levels and then whack another 200bhp at the rear wheels. Then you'd have cars that were almost as quick in the corners but also a bit of a handful for those who try to get too greedy with the throttle too early. Hey-presto you have cars that will bite whilst also being properly quick (as F1 cars should be but which the current cars don't seem to).

Too much power without an appropriate level of control is very dangerous as the world learned in 1994. Within five months there were two dead drivers and six nearly fatal accidents that could have claimed more lives. At that time everybody thought F1 was safe after 12 years without driver fatalities.

We have now gone 16 years with some very heavy focus on safety. Nevertheless doing something stupid as massively overpowering cars can easily negate all the work. Besides I think that my analysis of the utilization of more power is correct. It will enable more downforce and G-levels beyond the tolerable. If you fix downforce by spec parts you can as well fix it at the right level that was recommended a long time ago (1,25 metric tons). In that case the cars will be over powered with the current power but drivers will be able to control that due to the lower G-levels.

[internetf1fan]

If anyone is getting desperate, it's Alonso.

Did you see Alonso waving his hand like an idiot when Di Grassi didn't roll out a red carpet for him? Talk about depseration and arrogance.

You made the mistake Alonso, that's why you're at the back fighting for position with the slower drivers, who surprisingly didn't make mistakes like you did.

Welcome to racing Alonso!

He was pushing very hard he did very good job job sunday to get sixth and probs would have won, if ferrari can keep on redbull he will be champion

But that doesn't give him the right to wave his hand at Di Grassi when they've actually racing for the position. It's very arrogant to think everyone would get out of the way just because he crashed out in a faster car.

[lebesset]

apart from the sad six , who did alonso actually overtake on sunday ?