2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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Zynerji
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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Big Tea wrote:
Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:41 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:16 pm
henry wrote:
Fri Dec 24, 2021 4:02 pm
In the most recent regulations, 15 Dec 2021, they have slipped in another restriction



Anyone any theories as to why this needs controlling?
Controlled, pressurized air could be used for aero benefit if not contained I imagine...

6 BoV's aimed at the diffusor might be helpful! 😂
Is there any way it could be used to warm rear tyres?
Sure. It's pressurized, so it's hot air.

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Zynerji
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Re: Formula One 1.6l turbo engine formula as of 2013

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mzso wrote:
Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:11 pm
aleks_ader wrote:
Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:01 pm
Ryar wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 5:22 pm
Honestly, I feel more like he is a time traveler and put this post by going back time! How can he be so close to an all time hit engine design idea, four years before Mercedes did this! Amazing. =D>
Some words from Merc almost confirmed that they found idea from outside. I guess some Merc engineer saw that here and pitch the idea to Cowell. Back in 2014 we all were humbled and dumbfounded how genius his pitch was. =D> I pitched stupid idea of overhead exhaust LOL Witch Ferrari sorta emulated and ditched after 1st season LOL
By the way. He was talking about vertical cylinders. Was it still supposed to be straight fours at that point in 2010?
Ditching the rules that the new teams signed up for back then is still a disgusting taste in my mouth. The ANYTHING GOES FOR UNDER 40m$ would have been utterly epic to watch. Now we get near- spec with cost capping baking in early advantages for multiple seasons...🙄

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Stu
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Re: Formula One 1.6l turbo engine formula as of 2013

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Zynerji wrote:
Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:13 pm
mzso wrote:
Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:11 pm
aleks_ader wrote:
Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:01 pm


Some words from Merc almost confirmed that they found idea from outside. I guess some Merc engineer saw that here and pitch the idea to Cowell. Back in 2014 we all were humbled and dumbfounded how genius his pitch was. =D> I pitched stupid idea of overhead exhaust LOL Witch Ferrari sorta emulated and ditched after 1st season LOL
By the way. He was talking about vertical cylinders. Was it still supposed to be straight fours at that point in 2010?
Ditching the rules that the new teams signed up for back then is still a disgusting taste in my mouth. The ANYTHING GOES FOR UNDER 40m$ would have been utterly epic to watch. Now we get near- spec with cost capping baking in early advantages for multiple seasons...🙄
Agreed, even now £100million budget cap reduced minimum weight and minimal rule book (outside of safety, major dimensions and fuel usage) would be epic!
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

ENGINE TUNER
ENGINE TUNER
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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saviour stivala wrote:
Fri Dec 24, 2021 5:59 pm
NL_Fer wrote:
Fri Dec 24, 2021 5:09 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:00 am

Simple. The driver presses the overtake button on the steering wheel which gives them max output for as long as they are WOT. Listen to HAMs radio right before they restart the Abu Dhabi farce, Bono tells him that he has overtake.

The overtake button signals the ecu to override the current engine mode setting and instead use the maximum output setting.
I doubt if that is allowed. Overtake button is probably only for deployment of the ERS battery. So it will override any pre-programmed deployment schedule and give full deployment, until released or empty battery.
Yes. fully agree that overtake button deploys 'ERS battery'' full battery power in store. it does not change power unit mapping selected and approved to race on. Full battery power can be used in two ways, the first way is deploying full MGU-K power permitted by rules, and the second way is full battery power can be shared by MGU-k and MGU-H (both in motoring mode) with the waste gate/s open (electric supercharger mode).
Why do you deem it impossible for the overtake button to change the engine settings? They still have different engine settings on the steering wheel, the overtake button would simply override the current setting and switch to the most aggressive one.

draghixa
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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I just find this :

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/102473/w ... cedes.html

It says in 2021 engine horsepower

Mercedes 1015

Honda 1014

Ferrari 1000

Renault 1000

saviour stivala
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:41 pm
saviour stivala wrote:
Fri Dec 24, 2021 5:59 pm
NL_Fer wrote:
Fri Dec 24, 2021 5:09 pm


I doubt if that is allowed. Overtake button is probably only for deployment of the ERS battery. So it will override any pre-programmed deployment schedule and give full deployment, until released or empty battery.
Yes. fully agree that overtake button deploys 'ERS battery'' full battery power in store. it does not change power unit mapping selected and approved to race on. Full battery power can be used in two ways, the first way is deploying full MGU-K power permitted by rules, and the second way is full battery power can be shared by MGU-k and MGU-H (both in motoring mode) with the waste gate/s open (electric supercharger mode).
Why do you deem it impossible for the overtake button to change the engine settings? They still have different engine settings on the steering wheel, the overtake button would simply override the current setting and switch to the most aggressive one.
The overtake button does not change the engine settings (map selected and aproved to race on), It deploys full battery power stored at time of overtake/defend in one of the two ways mentioned.

ENGINE TUNER
ENGINE TUNER
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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saviour stivala wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 6:51 am
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:41 pm
saviour stivala wrote:
Fri Dec 24, 2021 5:59 pm


Yes. fully agree that overtake button deploys 'ERS battery'' full battery power in store. it does not change power unit mapping selected and approved to race on. Full battery power can be used in two ways, the first way is deploying full MGU-K power permitted by rules, and the second way is full battery power can be shared by MGU-k and MGU-H (both in motoring mode) with the waste gate/s open (electric supercharger mode).
Why do you deem it impossible for the overtake button to change the engine settings? They still have different engine settings on the steering wheel, the overtake button would simply override the current setting and switch to the most aggressive one.
The overtake button does not change the engine settings (map selected and aproved to race on), It deploys full battery power stored at time of overtake/defend in one of the two ways mentioned.
Proof? Regulation? You've posted plenty of false things here in the past so please provide some proof for your statement.

saviour stivala
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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The resultant effects on the internal combustion engine operational mode by the use of only one engine mode during qualifying and race as mandated by the rules. ‘’Although the teams also retains the use of ‘overtake button’, this must only affect the ‘energy deployment’ and have no effect on the way that the ‘internal combustion engine’ runs’’.

Dr. Acula
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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saviour stivala wrote:
Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:53 am
The resultant effects on the internal combustion engine operational mode by the use of only one engine mode during qualifying and race as mandated by the rules. ‘’Although the teams also retains the use of ‘overtake button’, this must only affect the ‘energy deployment’ and have no effect on the way that the ‘internal combustion engine’ runs’’.
Actually, we don't know that for sure. The issue is, as far as i know, this "rule" was only ever writen down in a technical directive. Unfortunately TDs aren't published on the FIA page so we don't know the exact wording they used. I would really like to see the original document because often enough what we get through the media outlets is inaccurate when it comes to such things.
It's like "any doesn't mean all." The exact wording can be very importent in such cases.

CMSMJ1
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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Dr. Acula wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:11 am
saviour stivala wrote:
Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:53 am
The resultant effects on the internal combustion engine operational mode by the use of only one engine mode during qualifying and race as mandated by the rules. ‘’Although the teams also retains the use of ‘overtake button’, this must only affect the ‘energy deployment’ and have no effect on the way that the ‘internal combustion engine’ runs’’.
Actually, we don't know that for sure. The issue is, as far as i know, this "rule" was only ever writen down in a technical directive. Unfortunately TDs aren't published on the FIA page so we don't know the exact wording they used. I would really like to see the original document because often enough what we get through the media outlets is inaccurate when it comes to such things.
It's like "any doesn't mean all." The exact wording can be very importent in such cases.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29310

I reckon this was the very long thread that would give the answers.

My recall is that the engine (ICE) modes could no longer be amended between qually and race - therefore the ICE maps were set at commencement of Qually. The overtake is an ERS deployment rather than engine ICE mapping.

Happy to be educated, but am working..and a 45 page thread isn't part of my workload today :mrgreen:
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Jambier
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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draghixa wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 2:24 pm
I just find this :

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/102473/w ... cedes.html

It says in 2021 engine horsepower

Mercedes 1015

Honda 1014

Ferrari 1000

Renault 1000
Hamilton special engine: 1060

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BassVirolla
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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Blackout
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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draghixa wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 2:24 pm
I just find this :

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/102473/w ... cedes.html

It says in 2021 engine horsepower

Mercedes 1015

Honda 1014

Ferrari 1000

Renault 1000
Renault numbers in that website do not ad up. It says:
Image
Whereas Renault found 60 hp between 2018 and 2019, then kinda froze its PU and raced the same spec with small updates in 2020 and 2021. (So the difference between 2018 and 2020 there is more realistic).
And Prost says the Renault was 35hp behind the Merc in 2021.
So the gaps between the Renault and the Honda in 2019 and even 2020 do not make sense.
https://f1-motorsports-gp.com/honda/hon ... 1h-1014hp/

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henry
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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The ICE numbers need to be taken with a grain of salt. They are simply the PU number minus 161. 161 is the theoretical permitted output assuming the chain CU-K -> K -> gear train to crank is 95% efficient. How likely is it that they are all exactly 95% efficient?

The other thing missing is any idea of the MGU-H output. This significantly affects how long they can run at self sustain plus, the mode which these numbers seem to measure, and the overall power in self sustain.
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Hoffman900
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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Blackout wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:58 pm
draghixa wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 2:24 pm
I just find this :

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/102473/w ... cedes.html

It says in 2021 engine horsepower

Mercedes 1015

Honda 1014

Ferrari 1000

Renault 1000
Renault numbers in that website do not ad up. It says:
https://i.imgur.com/La6PiXm.jpg
Whereas Renault found 60 hp between 2018 and 2019, then kinda froze its PU and raced the same spec with small updates in 2020 and 2021. (So the difference between 2018 and 2020 there is more realistic).
And Prost says the Renault was 35hp behind the Merc in 2021.
So the gaps between the Renault and the Honda in 2019 and even 2020 do not make sense.
https://f1-motorsports-gp.com/honda/hon ... 1h-1014hp/
15hp is a little over 1%. There isn’t a method out there short of them all being on the same advanced dyno cells the F1 teams and OEM’s use to discern that little difference.