Electric Vehicles

[Pup]

Thread is continued from this one, which went off-topic...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8433


Back to the car:


It ain't going to be cheap...

http://www.greencarreports.com/blog/105 ... ectric-car

According to trade journal Automotive News, BMW is seriously considering offering it only for lease. The reasoning is that the purchase price would be so high that it would turn off potential buyers.

And they're ripping off Apple with the brand name...

http://www.greencarreports.com/blog/105 ... ic-named-i

Logo isn't bad, though...

[xpensive]

As always and ever, it's about energy storage and conveying the same, one liter of petroleum distillate holds 34 MJ,
by filling 60 liter of this unholy crap in your tank in 30 seconds, you are effectively conveying 68 MW or 100 000 Hp.

Try to get that from your plug-in.

[Pup]

I think that's why Tesla has the best market approach. Concentrate first on the very high end, and then let it filter down from there as the technology allows. True for both the batteries and the carbon fiber.

[Just_a_fan]

Charge time is the big issue in my view. People talk up the range limitation issues of electric but the real issue is that it takes too long to charge the things.

If they could get 100 mile range with a 20 minute full-charge time then I reckon they'll crack it. Most people probably don't do more than a few 10s of miles/km in a trip so being able to replace that short range charge in a few minutes makes it a non-issue. Park up the car, plug in the charge point, do your shopping, unplug car, drive away.

Of course, the real killer blow for fossil fuelled cars will be fuel price. In the UK, fuel is about £1.35/litre (that's about 1.55euro/litre, about $2.20/litre). That price is only going to go one way. Electricity is pretty cheap. Anyone know what the "fuel cost" per mile is for a grid-charged electric car? It's probably the key issue determining when the tipping point will arrive.

[xpensive]

I am not so certain, there has to be a fundamental understanding of the relation between power and energy.

Most cars of today don't need more than 20 kW (25 Hp) to cruise at 100 km/h (62 mph), why you could in theory gallantly get away with 4 liters of gas after a two-our drive at the same speed if efficiency was 100%.

But efficiency is nowhere near 100% of course, and we are rarely complacent with just cruising along, are we?

Electricity as a solution, it all depends on how efficiently you produce it, nukes-hell yeah, but windmills forget it.

[Pup]

We looked at a Nissan Leaf, since it was available in our area. We ended up not getting one just because of timing. It would have worked well for my wife, who has a non-highway commute and then just errands. It wouldn't work for me, since a single trip to a job site would have eaten up half the charge. From a cost standpoint, we calculated with our electric rate that it would cost us about $0.03 per mile, compared to the $0.10 per mile for gas for her car. Since she averages around 10,000 miles per year, that's about a $700/year savings, or a little less than $60/month.

[Richard]

The Nissan Leaf is already on sale, but this BMW won't be on sale until 2013?

Pup - the electric car would work if it was a second car for a household, then you'd have a conventional (or hybrid) for the longer journeys, or where you need a bigger load capacity.

[Ciro Pabón]

Stated goals (using subsidies)

Ireland: 10% of electric cars (EC) by 2020
Germany: 1 million EC cars by 2020
Spain: 1 million EC by 2014
UK: 11.000 recharging points, no date, 150 million pounds
China: 1.5 billion U$ to become the largest producer of electric cars.

Many other countries give subsidies or exempt EC from vehicle taxes.

"... by 2025, all passenger cars sold in Europe will be electric or hybrid"

It's true that charge costs are 1/3 of gas price, but the cars (that is, the batteries) cost around 15.000 dollars more. It takes like 10 years to recoup the investment. We should invest in battery makers shares.

I read that this car development is going to cost a pile of money. BMW intends to sell the technology to Citröen, Peugeot and Saab after the initial investment. It's way ahead of time, so they are betting. However, this could mean a big shift in brands.

China is decided to take advantage of the opportunity, by taking the lower part of the market. For example, Warren Buffet is investing in BYD. Interestingly enough, the people behind this are cellphone battery makers. They are making more money than car manufacturers on every car...