Ringo F1 design

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Giblet
Giblet
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Joined: 19 Mar 2007, 01:47
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Re: Ringo F1 design

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For uniform expansion you need even heat distribution don't you? Every hot exhaust I have seen has dark spots that are not as hot where the exhaust bends or is thicker for mounting points, welds, etc. All exhausts have at least one of the two.

Again, I think it is a brilliant Idea in regards to implementation of the rules, just my non engineer mind sees potential issues.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

marcush.
marcush.
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Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Ringo F1 design

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If you put the rib considerably inside of the tube say 10 mm away from the surface you are perfectly legal and the heat will not close the gap.
Nowhere is writtn that you cannot put things into the tube.

Giblet
Giblet
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Joined: 19 Mar 2007, 01:47
Location: Canada

Re: Ringo F1 design

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This is true of course, but now you have a harder exhaust to make, which are very carefully designed to be non-restrictive, will now be hard to make and have restrictions in the pipe. The rib would have to be large enough to get red hot and not fail.

I'm just thinking out loud if this will be worth any measurable gains for the amount of work.

Also, I wonder how much exhaust gas will divert to the first pipe as it will be high velocity, and choose the path of least resistance for the most part. My understanding is that the pipes are large enough for proper flow and very little back pressure.

I just don't know, so this is not so much a critique, as s genuine question of how and why this will work in the real world.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

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horse
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Joined: 23 Oct 2009, 17:53
Location: Bilbao, ES

Re: Ringo F1 design

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Very clever Ringo! I like it.

Do you think splitting the exhaust like that will be beneficial, tho? Perhaps more to the diffuser is better than any to the Gurneys?

You're also shadowing off the whole outer section of the Gurney between the two major "exits".
"Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words." - Chuang Tzu

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Ringo F1 design

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decent idea, i had one like that too but the exhaust opening is too far back to get the RBR effect.
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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Ringo F1 design

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Giblet wrote:This is true of course, but now you have a harder exhaust to make, which are very carefully designed to be non-restrictive, will now be hard to make and have restrictions in the pipe. The rib would have to be large enough to get red hot and not fail.

I'm just thinking out loud if this will be worth any measurable gains for the amount of work.
this is true, as the pipe has to made from an upper and lower hlaf then seam welded.
A skiiled exhuast maker can make it. It wil be more time consuming to make, but thankfully exhuasts don't get damaged as much as nose cones.

Chances are it may not need the rib. Having it split like this also means the pipe doesn't have any fluctating "hoop" stresses in the Y section.


Also, I wonder how much exhaust gas will divert to the first pipe as it will be high velocity, and choose the path of least resistance for the most part. My understanding is that the pipes are large enough for proper flow and very little back pressure.

I just don't know, so this is not so much a critique, as s genuine question of how and why this will work in the real world.
How much gas diversts where has to be based on experimentation. A little deflector, or a reshaping of the "Y" to get the desired flow ratios can be decided from experimentation.

I made this pipe as a nozzle, the diameter at the sidepod is bigger. The end is a bit smaller in diameter. There is a back pressure increase, but then there is a velocity increase.

I suspect that the F1 teams are doing this, especially renault. There is price to pay engine power wise, but you have an increase in exhuast velocity with the nozzle end. This increased velocity helps the diffuser.

It's probably blowing near transonic speeds i think at 18,000 rpm. :lol:
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marcush.
marcush.
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Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Ringo F1 design

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boys ..look at the work of art Mclaren are doing with their exhausts :stepped oval tubing bends 4 into 1 ...can it get much more demanding?
Inconel tubing is very often not seamless ..and teams do not shy away from welding it up themselves...if the gauge of sheet they want to use is unavailable as tubing.
The "rib" could esily be a tube even a airfoilshaped tube to divide the exhaust gasstream in the desired directions plus providing a flow path to cool that critical area if you have fears .....options after options.Technically I see no issue there for a skilled fabricator ...apart from the radiators the exhaust system seems to be one one of the last areas for sheetmetal fabricators in F1...what a pity.

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Ringo F1 design

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Image

just made the concept to get a little practice before i form the final pipe on the car.

You can see from here that there is really one aperture.

edit: it's coiled the wrong way, but you guys get the idea.
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elrumo
elrumo
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Joined: 27 Jun 2011, 15:12

Re: Ringo F1 design

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Compliments Ringo...interesting..

It's possible to have quotas of your under floor ???

Ciao,
Thank you.

rumo@technet.it

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Ringo F1 design

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When you say quotas what do you mean? drawings? :P
I'm not familiar with that translation.

edit: oh i see you speak Italian.
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MIKEY_!
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Joined: 10 Jul 2011, 03:07

Re: Ringo F1 design

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marcush. wrote:...apart from the radiators the exhaust system seems to be one one of the last areas for sheetmetal fabricators in F1...what a pity.
Sad but true even these may soon be replaced by ceramics :|

Shrek
Shrek
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Joined: 05 Jun 2009, 02:11
Location: right here

Re: Ringo F1 design

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MIKEY_! wrote:
marcush. wrote:...apart from the radiators the exhaust system seems to be one one of the last areas for sheetmetal fabricators in F1...what a pity.
Sad but true even these may soon be replaced by ceramics :|
what about making the radiators out of carbon fiber?
Spencer

wesley123
wesley123
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 17:55

Re: Ringo F1 design

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Shrek wrote:
MIKEY_! wrote:
marcush. wrote:...apart from the radiators the exhaust system seems to be one one of the last areas for sheetmetal fabricators in F1...what a pity.
Sad but true even these may soon be replaced by ceramics :|
what about making the radiators out of carbon fiber?
what would be better than that is having no radiators at all lol
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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MIKEY_!
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Joined: 10 Jul 2011, 03:07

Re: Ringo F1 design

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Ha ha ha - not sure what the temperatures involved are but the carbon would probably delaminate with the heat.

marcush.
marcush.
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Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Ringo F1 design

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MIKEY_! wrote:Ha ha ha - not sure what the temperatures involved are but the carbon would probably delaminate with the heat.
You are speaking of plumbing and watertanks there? Well in car production it is best practise to use Polyamid water tanks and waterlines.this can all be manufactured quite nicely (using friction welding for example),one issue is the contact area from the plastics to the aluminium radiator cores ..with the vibrations and different grow of the components under temperature it would be quite a challenge ,epoxy matrix would not make for the best of resins for a hot water application ...as it is taking up moisture (and starts swelling + degrading)but why not coating the surfaces in contact with the hot water.
a Radiator core made from Carbon would of course influence the ability to transfer heat in a bad way.
There are some graphite Heat exchangers on the market ..not automotive applications.