General Honda F1 Topic

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
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Wouter
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https://en.hondaracingf1.com/insights/1 ... Races.html

100 RACES IN THE HYBRID ERA FOR HONDA

The United States Grand Prix marks a major milestone for Honda in Formula 1. Sunday’s race will be our 100th since returning to the sport in 2015, with the target of becoming world champions once again.

After six years away from F1, we announced our return with McLaren, rekindling an iconic partnership that caught the attention of our current F1 technical director Toyoharu Tanabe.
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100 races is a time to reflect, but Tanabe-san doesn’t like looking backwards for too long. “We continue our relentless efforts to improve and achieve the target of winning world championships that we set ourselves in 2015. We have won championships in the past and I believe we can do it again in the future.”
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Hino
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Honda Thanks Day 2019 is on Sunday, check the YT count down to see when it starts.

lio007
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Hino wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:13 am
Honda Thanks Day 2019 is on Sunday, check the YT count down to see when it starts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ2fbg6eIQg
I was a bit surprised that there was no HondaF1- PU today...

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Wouter
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lio007 wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:23 am
Hino wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:13 am
Honda Thanks Day 2019 is on Sunday, check the YT count down to see when it starts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ2fbg6eIQg
I was a bit surprised that there was no HondaF1- PU today...
The (older) demo cars don't have a Honda engine.
Where would you like to see a Honda engine?

Btw, Daniil from Austin ---> Japan ---> Brazil. He must have a huge jetlag. :(

lio007
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Wouter wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:18 am
lio007 wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:23 am
Hino wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:13 am
Honda Thanks Day 2019 is on Sunday, check the YT count down to see when it starts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ2fbg6eIQg
I was a bit surprised that there was no HondaF1- PU today...
The (older) demo cars don't have a Honda engine.
Where would you like to see a Honda engine?

Btw, Daniil from Austin ---> Japan ---> Brazil. He must have a huge jetlag. :(
I know there is a Renault-V8 in the RBR-showcars, which was driven by DC.
I thought / expected them to bring a Toro Rosso with a Honda-PU to the HRTD, given Daniil was there. IIRC they had one last year.

GhostF1
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lio007 wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:59 am
Wouter wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:18 am
lio007 wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:23 am


I was a bit surprised that there was no HondaF1- PU today...
The (older) demo cars don't have a Honda engine.
Where would you like to see a Honda engine?

Btw, Daniil from Austin ---> Japan ---> Brazil. He must have a huge jetlag. :(
I know there is a Renault-V8 in the RBR-showcars, which was driven by DC.
I thought / expected them to bring a Toro Rosso with a Honda-PU to the HRTD, given Daniil was there. IIRC they had one last year.
Do we know that's true? I was under the impression they swapped a Honda into the back, easy enough to do, these are only showcars so they don't need to be perfect and the V8s were basically more or less the same. Brawn only needed a spacer plate for the switch from Honda to Merc V8.

I can't see how they'd still have Renault engines in there without external branding. You'd assume they wouldn't have that.

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PlatinumZealot
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GhostF1 wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:06 am
lio007 wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:59 am
Wouter wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:18 am


The (older) demo cars don't have a Honda engine.
Where would you like to see a Honda engine?

Btw, Daniil from Austin ---> Japan ---> Brazil. He must have a huge jetlag. :(
I know there is a Renault-V8 in the RBR-showcars, which was driven by DC.
I thought / expected them to bring a Toro Rosso with a Honda-PU to the HRTD, given Daniil was there. IIRC they had one last year.
Do we know that's true? I was under the impression they swapped a Honda into the back, easy enough to do, these are only showcars so they don't need to be perfect and the V8s were basically more or less the same. Brawn only needed a spacer plate for the switch from Honda to Merc V8.

I can't see how they'd still have Renault engines in there without external branding. You'd assume they wouldn't have that.
That's pretty normal.
The engines from other brands were already purchased. It doesn't affect the branding at all.
See BMW Sauber Ferrari!
Or Aston Martin RedBull Honda!

GhostF1
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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:20 pm
GhostF1 wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:06 am
lio007 wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:59 am


I know there is a Renault-V8 in the RBR-showcars, which was driven by DC.
I thought / expected them to bring a Toro Rosso with a Honda-PU to the HRTD, given Daniil was there. IIRC they had one last year.
Do we know that's true? I was under the impression they swapped a Honda into the back, easy enough to do, these are only showcars so they don't need to be perfect and the V8s were basically more or less the same. Brawn only needed a spacer plate for the switch from Honda to Merc V8.

I can't see how they'd still have Renault engines in there without external branding. You'd assume they wouldn't have that.
That's pretty normal.
The engines from other brands were already purchased. It doesn't affect the branding at all.
See BMW Sauber Ferrari!
Or Aston Martin RedBull Honda!
I know, it's not the crossover that's the issue. It's the none at all that is. BMW Sauber Ferrari was just because they had the name for 2010 and had not applied for the change, besides that's a matter of more than necessary names not lack thereof. AM RB Honda, the same, that's fine as all three parties are currently involved. It's more the lack of external branding for what is actually being used (which your examples do not reflect).

Sure the engines were purchased, but I don't believe they then became property of RBR? Currently engines bought by teams are then taken back by the manufacturer after use, usually to prevent prying eyes researching the engine... but maybe that contract ruling becomes defunct after the V8s stopped being in use because... well who cares now. So many questions.

For example, I can't imagine Honda just giving RBR all the current V6 engines to keep. That would imply the Renault PU's they have used up to the end of 2018 are still in RBR's possession as are the Ferrari units in Toro Rosso's, what's stopping RBR letting Honda take one of each apart... Same for McLaren having the 2015-17 Honda PU's, what's stopping them letting Renault have a peak at those. IP risk surely.

Sorry bit of a mind explosion.

marmer
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Not sure how much Renault could learn from the McLaren era Honda engine.

But I wouldn't think it would be that hard for teams to keep old data anyway. On the team side assuming they never open up the engine they still know it's exact dimensions for their chassis. Plus a season of data. So actually having any old our if date engine won't give much more information than they would have anyway.

Rodak
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I don't think any of the engine manufacturers sell their engines to customers, they supply engines for the season and take them back when the teams are done with them.

GhostF1
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Rodak wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:37 pm
I don't think any of the engine manufacturers sell their engines to customers, they supply engines for the season and take them back when the teams are done with them.
That's what I mean. Hence why I think the RBR show cars probably have Honda V8s in them. Highly doubt they have Renault engineers on stand by for these cars.

gshevlin
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For any current engine formula in most top-flight series, the suppliers will take the engines back, since the entire basis of supply in most series is now a "sealed lease", where the team is never allowed to work on the powerplant, only the supplier's own engineers, or an authorized trackside support organization, would be allowed to work on them.
This all dates from the late 1980s, when an infamous incident occurred in the CART series, involving an Ilmor Indy V8 leased to Patrick Racing. The Indy V8 went on a short vacation trip to Italy (since Patrick Racing was forming an engine supply relationship with Alfa Romeo at the time), where it was partially disassembled and inspected. However, the fact that the engine had been inspected in detail by a rival supplier soon became obvious. Ilmor stopped supplying Patrick Racing (as in "you will never get within sighting distance of one of our engines again") and the engine manufacturers introduced the "sealed lease" contract, effectively converting the engine to a "black box" that only the supplier's own engineers were contractually allowed to work on. The sealed lease concept was one that Tony George was deeply unhappy with, and it was one of the stated reasons for the founding of the IRL. George wanted to go back to the days when anybody, including third parties and tuners, could build or work on an engine.
I would think that determining the powerplant in the Red Bull show cars can be done by looking at the decals. If there are no Renault decals, or there are Honda decals, I would be inclined to think that the cars either have a Honda V8 or A.N.Other V8 procured by Red Bull.

Bence
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But not when the tech is outdated and/or irrelevant. Used, working F1 cars are so cheap that reengineering them would be highly uneconomical. Still, using a relatively inexpensive 3rd party engine (Judd, etc.) would be worth the effort.

marmer
marmer
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Anyone know if the honda motors still sound like they are gargling gravel when going into the pits or really slowly like they where a few years ago

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Wouter
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