Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Are Schumacher's WDC and Win records under threat of being eclipsed?

Will the 7 WDC record be broken?
6
3%
Will the 91 Victory record be broken?
44
26%
Neither record will be broken.
20
12%
Both records will be broken.
102
59%
 
Total votes: 172

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Sieper
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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I would say 2 WDC's. So 1,5 year. Then het is G.O.A.T. and can milk his status.

Wynters
Wynters
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:49 am
Hamilton is no doubt one of the best drivers in history but let's not kid ourselves by pretending any other elite driver could not amass all these race wins and titles driving for Mercedes.
I suspect that Rosberg would've taken more wins and WDCs (and still be racing) if there was another elite driver there. Who would the other options have been? Alonso or Vettel?

I'm also not sure that Mercedes wins both Championships in 2017 and 2018 if Hamilton is in the Ferrari, for instance.
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:49 am
He has been in the right place at the right time and profited from it immensely.
It is the most important skill in F1.

ENGINE TUNER
ENGINE TUNER
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Moore77 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:33 pm
Unc1eM0nty wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:30 pm
If the budget cuts and new technical rules designed to give us closer racing work, then, it's unlikely that we'll ever see this level of prolonged dominance again.
Which are the records, in any sport, that was set in one generation, wasn't broken in another generation or at least within a couple of generations?
You might want to look into Wilt Chamberlain's records, and Bill Russell's winning records.

Wass85
Wass85
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wynters wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:04 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:49 am
Hamilton is no doubt one of the best drivers in history but let's not kid ourselves by pretending any other elite driver could not amass all these race wins and titles driving for Mercedes.
I suspect that Rosberg would've taken more wins and WDCs (and still be racing) if there was another elite driver there. Who would the other options have been? Alonso or Vettel?

I'm also not sure that Mercedes wins both Championships in 2017 and 2018 if Hamilton is in the Ferrari, for instance.
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:49 am
He has been in the right place at the right time and profited from it immensely.
It is the most important skill in F1.
Very likely, just imagine now if Merc had decided to mould Rosberg in to their number 1.

It was quite a bold move to bring Hamilton in especially when Rosberg basically retired Schumacher.

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El Scorchio
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Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:41 am

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Sieper wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:12 pm
thy are not contrary, and he told he quoted from another poster on that locked thread. Why the questioning?
Ah yes, I see that now. It just looked weird on an initial reading with those two posts next to each other.

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El Scorchio
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:16 pm
Wynters wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:04 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:49 am
Hamilton is no doubt one of the best drivers in history but let's not kid ourselves by pretending any other elite driver could not amass all these race wins and titles driving for Mercedes.
I suspect that Rosberg would've taken more wins and WDCs (and still be racing) if there was another elite driver there. Who would the other options have been? Alonso or Vettel?

I'm also not sure that Mercedes wins both Championships in 2017 and 2018 if Hamilton is in the Ferrari, for instance.
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:49 am
He has been in the right place at the right time and profited from it immensely.
It is the most important skill in F1.
Very likely, just imagine now if Merc had decided to mould Rosberg in to their number 1.

It was quite a bold move to bring Hamilton in especially when Rosberg basically retired Schumacher.
They clearly saw Hamilton as the one man who could bring unprecedented success to the team and chased his signature pretty hard. And to be fair they were right. Lots of people questioned the move at the time from Hamilton's POV.

Wass85
Wass85
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:21 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:16 pm
Wynters wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:04 pm
I suspect that Rosberg would've taken more wins and WDCs (and still be racing) if there was another elite driver there. Who would the other options have been? Alonso or Vettel?

I'm also not sure that Mercedes wins both Championships in 2017 and 2018 if Hamilton is in the Ferrari, for instance.

It is the most important skill in F1.
Very likely, just imagine now if Merc had decided to mould Rosberg in to their number 1.

It was quite a bold move to bring Hamilton in especially when Rosberg basically retired Schumacher.
They clearly saw Hamilton as the one man who could bring unprecedented success to the team and chased his signature pretty hard. And to be fair they were right. Lots of people questioned the move at the time from Hamilton's POV.
Why did they not see that in Rosberg though, he performed great from 2010-2012.

Rosberg would be a multiple world champion had Hamilton not arrived.

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dans79
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:30 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:21 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:16 pm


Very likely, just imagine now if Merc had decided to mould Rosberg in to their number 1.

It was quite a bold move to bring Hamilton in especially when Rosberg basically retired Schumacher.
They clearly saw Hamilton as the one man who could bring unprecedented success to the team and chased his signature pretty hard. And to be fair they were right. Lots of people questioned the move at the time from Hamilton's POV.
Why did they not see that in Rosberg though, he performed great from 2010-2012.

Rosberg would be a multiple world champion had Hamilton not arrived.
Your guess is as good as anyone else's. However, teams don't make decisions like that especially when you consider the amount of money involved on a whim so they must have seen something.
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Wass85
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:36 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:30 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:21 pm


They clearly saw Hamilton as the one man who could bring unprecedented success to the team and chased his signature pretty hard. And to be fair they were right. Lots of people questioned the move at the time from Hamilton's POV.
Why did they not see that in Rosberg though, he performed great from 2010-2012.

Rosberg would be a multiple world champion had Hamilton not arrived.
Your guess is as good as anyone else's. However, teams don't make decisions like that especially when you consider the amount of money involved on a whim so they must have seen something.
He's quite fortunate really because they could have so settled with Rosberg and still won multiple titles.

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El Scorchio
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Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:41 am

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:30 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:21 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:16 pm


Very likely, just imagine now if Merc had decided to mould Rosberg in to their number 1.

It was quite a bold move to bring Hamilton in especially when Rosberg basically retired Schumacher.
They clearly saw Hamilton as the one man who could bring unprecedented success to the team and chased his signature pretty hard. And to be fair they were right. Lots of people questioned the move at the time from Hamilton's POV.
Why did they not see that in Rosberg though, he performed great from 2010-2012.

Rosberg would be a multiple world champion had Hamilton not arrived.
Your guess is as good as mine. And the driver records over the seasons prove Merc were correct to hire Hamilton, with him winning almost everything. Been done to death but I think most acknowledge 2016 was freakishly fortunate for Rosberg. You also need to consider the enormous status, and marketing and merch value Hamilton brings into the team as well as unprecedented mainstream recognition for a driver. He's probably more famous than the rest of them all put together. People who don't know F1 know Lewis Hamilton. Also, do they win the WCC all those times without Hamilton? There's chance they may not, and do they win WDC in 2017 and 2018?

Anyway, it's all been debated ad nauseam. The apples fell where they fell and the records say what they say. Whether people think Hamilton deserves it is another thing entirely. He was given a great opportunity, but you have to say he's been pretty faultless in extracting everything available from it. And 90% of the time you don't get the opportunity unless you prove yourself worthy of it first.

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Moore77
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:36 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:30 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:21 pm


They clearly saw Hamilton as the one man who could bring unprecedented success to the team and chased his signature pretty hard. And to be fair they were right. Lots of people questioned the move at the time from Hamilton's POV.
Why did they not see that in Rosberg though, he performed great from 2010-2012.

Rosberg would be a multiple world champion had Hamilton not arrived.
Your guess is as good as anyone else's. However, teams don't make decisions like that especially when you consider the amount of money involved on a whim so they must have seen something.
They didn't know if they would be building a dominating PU or a dominating Car package. Niki, who joined the team in 2012, was very particular that, he wanted someone with great single lap speed. Rosberg was unproven in terms of single pace at the sharp end of the grid. Hamilton had proven to be lightening quick, despite Vettel dominating the scene. Niki knew Hamilton was struggling at McLaren and he wanted to pluck him out. If it was not for Niki, Brawn would have gone ahead with his plan of Rosberg and as he recently revealed, Hulk in the other seat.

IN 2012, no A list driver would have preferred to join Mercedes, due to their poor form. They had one lucky win in China, but struggled big time through the year. If it was not for fluffed chances by McLaren, Hamilton would have most likely won the title at McLaren and stayed there further. He was eyeing Red Bull seat, which wasn't getting released. As Niki said, it was that failure in Singapore for Hamilton that sealed the deal for Niki. As they say, Rest is History.
Gangdom: Pom, Tom, Loverboy, Boomer.

Wass85
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Moore77 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:45 pm
dans79 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:36 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:30 pm


Why did they not see that in Rosberg though, he performed great from 2010-2012.

Rosberg would be a multiple world champion had Hamilton not arrived.
Your guess is as good as anyone else's. However, teams don't make decisions like that especially when you consider the amount of money involved on a whim so they must have seen something.
They didn't know if they would be building a dominating PU or a dominating Car package. Niki, who joined the team in 2012, was very particular that, he wanted someone with great single lap speed. Rosberg was unproven in terms of single pace at the sharp end of the grid. Hamilton had proven to be lightening quick, despite Vettel dominating the scene. Niki knew Hamilton was struggling at McLaren and he wanted to pluck him out. If it was not for Niki, Brawn would have gone ahead with his plan of Rosberg and as he recently revealed, Hulk in the other seat.

IN 2012, no A list driver would have preferred to join Mercedes, due to their poor form. They had one lucky win in China, but struggled big time through the year. If it was not for fluffed chances by McLaren, Hamilton would have most likely won the title at McLaren and stayed there further. He was eyeing Red Bull seat, which wasn't getting released. As Niki said, it was that failure in Singapore for Hamilton that sealed the deal for Niki. As they say, Rest is History.
The reality though is Hamilton is only slightly faster than Rosberg over one lap, they're basically that close you are really splitting hairs between them.

What Hamilton excels at is that extra bit of talent when he's in for a shot of the win, once he smells blood he is relentlessly fast and rarely makes a mistake.

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dans79
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Rosberg's view from a little while ago.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/05/11/ros ... grey-area/
“It’s just unbelievable how he positions the car so smartly,” Rosberg told the official F1 website. “Whenever I would try to go up against him and hold my own and fight back he would always manage to stay in the grey area.

“Whenever I would try, sometimes I would just straightaway jump over the grey area into the black area, which is not allowed. He would just be so skilled at keeping it in the grey area, never really making it 100 percent his fault, that was a huge strength of his, these wheel-to-wheel battles. One of those huge strengths that he has of many.”
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El Scorchio
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:51 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:45 pm
dans79 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:36 pm


Your guess is as good as anyone else's. However, teams don't make decisions like that especially when you consider the amount of money involved on a whim so they must have seen something.
They didn't know if they would be building a dominating PU or a dominating Car package. Niki, who joined the team in 2012, was very particular that, he wanted someone with great single lap speed. Rosberg was unproven in terms of single pace at the sharp end of the grid. Hamilton had proven to be lightening quick, despite Vettel dominating the scene. Niki knew Hamilton was struggling at McLaren and he wanted to pluck him out. If it was not for Niki, Brawn would have gone ahead with his plan of Rosberg and as he recently revealed, Hulk in the other seat.

IN 2012, no A list driver would have preferred to join Mercedes, due to their poor form. They had one lucky win in China, but struggled big time through the year. If it was not for fluffed chances by McLaren, Hamilton would have most likely won the title at McLaren and stayed there further. He was eyeing Red Bull seat, which wasn't getting released. As Niki said, it was that failure in Singapore for Hamilton that sealed the deal for Niki. As they say, Rest is History.
The reality though is Hamilton is only slightly faster than Rosberg over one lap, they're basically that close you are really splitting hairs between them.

What Hamilton excels at is that extra bit of talent when he's in for a shot of the win, once he smells blood he is relentlessly fast and rarely makes a mistake.
Not necessarily. Those few tenths or even hundredths can make an absolutely massive difference between being first or not. Teams spend millions of dollars and huge resource searching for any component to give an extra tenth of a second a lap. Hamilton is that extra component and I'm sure to MB, he's been worth every penny of his salary.

Wass85
Wass85
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:58 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:51 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:45 pm
They didn't know if they would be building a dominating PU or a dominating Car package. Niki, who joined the team in 2012, was very particular that, he wanted someone with great single lap speed. Rosberg was unproven in terms of single pace at the sharp end of the grid. Hamilton had proven to be lightening quick, despite Vettel dominating the scene. Niki knew Hamilton was struggling at McLaren and he wanted to pluck him out. If it was not for Niki, Brawn would have gone ahead with his plan of Rosberg and as he recently revealed, Hulk in the other seat.

IN 2012, no A list driver would have preferred to join Mercedes, due to their poor form. They had one lucky win in China, but struggled big time through the year. If it was not for fluffed chances by McLaren, Hamilton would have most likely won the title at McLaren and stayed there further. He was eyeing Red Bull seat, which wasn't getting released. As Niki said, it was that failure in Singapore for Hamilton that sealed the deal for Niki. As they say, Rest is History.
The reality though is Hamilton is only slightly faster than Rosberg over one lap, they're basically that close you are really splitting hairs between them.

What Hamilton excels at is that extra bit of talent when he's in for a shot of the win, once he smells blood he is relentlessly fast and rarely makes a mistake.
Not necessarily. Those few tenths or even hundredths can make an absolutely massive difference between being first or not. Teams spend millions of dollars and huge resource searching for any component to give an extra tenth of a second a lap. Hamilton is that extra component and I'm sure to MB, he's been worth every penny of his salary.
Have you got the data on those two?

Was it less than a tenth faster or just over?