Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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Wynters
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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Thinking about races that would've ended differently this season if these 'rules' had been in effect earlier.

Canada - Vettel wins, obviously. Not only does he not get a penalty, but he's still got options if Hamilton gets close again.
Hungary- Verstappen wins (he only had to hold Hamilton off for four laps, easy to do with these new rules).
Monaco - Verstappen doesn't get a penalty for driving into Bottas in the pitlane so finishes 2nd.
France - Ricciardo forces Norris off and overtakes Kimi offtrack, but they are both first-time offences so he keeps both positions.
Britain - Does Vettel get a Black-and-White flag for hitting Verstappen rather than a penalty (it wasn't dangerous, just hard, manly racing)?

I'm sure there are more, but it's late.

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RZS10
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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They stripped Vettel of the Canada win (rightfully) and the masses (led by Ferrari) cried out in protest and since then it's been a process where it's quite clear that "the show" is taking priority over driving standards, fairness, consistency and safety. One of the steps was allowing Verstappen to keep the win at the track owned by the same parent company that runs the racing team he drives for (despite a questionable overtaking maneuvre) i really hope it turns into a complete shitshow where it spirals out of control just to see how far they're willing to take it.

Drivers already have a get out of jail free card which pretty much allows them to just break the rules at their discretion, and if they're at the right venue even several times.

Anyways ... I'll really enjoy watching Verstappen punt everyone off track at Zandvoort next year =D>

Fulcrum
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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The decision to allow 'tougher racing' couldn't have been more poorly timed, considering the events of only a week ago.

The real issue though is the lack of consistency in decision-making. IMO the FIA needs to institute a closed pool of 'qualified' stewards who travel with the sport from race to race, and adjudicate at every race, much like umpires in cricket. At least then you will begin to minimize one source of variation, being human interpretation.

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izzy
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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If you allow a bit more, drivers will take a bit more! So the frequency of rule-breaking will stay the same, not magically reduce, and the number of penalties won't change after all, only the amount of crude driving.

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Big Tea
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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As with all things, the drivers will soon get used to it and react accordingly.
Driver A will make different considerations not only before doing something that would have been called out, but also driver B will have the rule in mind when racing against him.

Comparing to rugby, where there were a raft of new rules not long ago and people said the game could not be played, the next season they are not even mentioned.
Not only the participants but those who judge will soon find an acceptable compromise between too tight and too loose.
How can I learn Braille for 'Danger do not touch'

wesley123
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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Jolle wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:34 pm
I think they are finding and trying a new balance between hard racing and nasty moves.
Then they do that in a really, really weird way. Considering how the move under braking was penalized in F2 earlier, as was Leclerc cutting the first chicane.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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SiLo
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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I was amazed he wasn't given a penalty. You can't crowd someone off the track WHILST braking. Hamilton was luck the curb came up when it did otherwise he might have spun into Leclerc and taken them both out.
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marmer
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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one does have to ask why hamilton put himself there. overtaking round the outside on that corner always leaves you at risk of being punted off if charles locked up and it could have easily been a DNF.
dive up the inside and suddenly charles either has to give space or be hit or back off. going deep if hamilton out brakes him leaves him impossble to get around albit exposed on exit speed as its such a tight turn.

Wynters
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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Grosjean nailed it on the first lap of the race.

"What's the point in there being rules if in F1 if no one ****ing respects anything?!"

:lol:

cooken
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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marmer wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:14 pm
one does have to ask why hamilton put himself there. overtaking round the outside on that corner always leaves you at risk of being punted off if charles locked up and it could have easily been a DNF.
dive up the inside and suddenly charles either has to give space or be hit or back off. going deep if hamilton out brakes him leaves him impossble to get around albit exposed on exit speed as its such a tight turn.
He overtook Vettel around the outside the last year.
Plus putting your car there takes space away from the other guy which compromises his line through, and opens up a potential run out of the exit of the chicane (eg cutback). At the very least it will allow you to keep a closer following distance into the next straight, which might help keep you that little bit closer all the way to the next DRS zone.

Recall Leclerc blocked the inside line, so the choices were:
1) Lift off and allow Leclerc to take his normal line.
2) Go side by side and increase pressure, open up the potential for a pass.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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Exactly cooken. Going around the outside into a chicane is very common. See Hulk on Vettel lap 1. If you worry about the other guy locking up and sliding in to you, you're already beat.
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dans79
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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marmer wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:14 pm
one does have to ask why hamilton put himself there. overtaking round the outside on that corner always leaves you at risk of being punted off if charles locked up and it could have easily been a DNF.
Their is a massive difference between someone doing something intentionally vs accidentally.
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63l8qrrfy6
63l8qrrfy6
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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I detest this whole idea of the black and white flag - it just gives stewards another mechanism to avoid making a potentially controversial decision.

It is clearly wrong to call it the "yellow card" of F1 - in many sports the party receiving one would cede some form of advantage.

How about properly defining what is and isn't allowed and get rid of the black and white flag?
Instead of making up rules as they go along they should draw a line in the sand and in time precedents will be set to cover most types of incidents.

Secondly, I don't really like handing out different penalties based on the outcome of the incident. Both Vettel and Stroll were equally wrong - they should have both received the same penalty. Anything else and it would just encourage aggressive drivers to intimidate others.

I think we have seen several times this season that hard racing and respectful racing are not mutually exclusive.
Sure, some want to see fireballs and carbon fibre flying about - that's not what F1 should be about though.

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Big Tea
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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Mudflap wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:01 pm
I detest this whole idea of the black and white flag - it just gives stewards another mechanism to avoid making a potentially controversial decision.

It is clearly wrong to call it the "yellow card" of F1 - in many sports the party receiving one would cede some form of advantage.

How about properly defining what is and isn't allowed and get rid of the black and white flag?
Instead of making up rules as they go along they should draw a line in the sand and in time precedents will be set to cover most types of incidents.

Secondly, I don't really like handing out different penalties based on the outcome of the incident. Both Vettel and Stroll were equally wrong - they should have both received the same penalty. Anything else and it would just encourage aggressive drivers to intimidate others.

I think we have seen several times this season that hard racing and respectful racing are not mutually exclusive.
Sure, some want to see fireballs and carbon fibre flying about - that's not what F1 should be about though.
should be 'points' every time, and 5 points = penalty. No time limit, just when the count hits 5. Maybe reset after 10 clear races or something?
How can I learn Braille for 'Danger do not touch'

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strad
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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It hasn't always been "after you" niceness in the past ya know.
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